PostdocTransformation show for scienctists leaping into business
Get to know companies which hire people with a doctor title!
Episode 0027 Shownotes
If you are strong in scientific methods, do you want to know, how you can leverage your strength into the decision-making context in business? In this PostdocTransformation show episode, Dr. Emily Rosenthal from the US (see her LinkedIn profile) will make you see how you can transfer your quantitative and qualitative research skills. In her own business, Masters of the Day - with Dr. Emily, she helps leaders in the boardroom and / or organizations to change in data-driven and sustainable ways. She helps scientists leaping into business to move from academic rigor to business agility. She’ll talk about the importance of your personal mission statement. Let’s dive right into our interview with Dr. Emily!
We share actionable tips for your PostdocTransformation.
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Are you a quant or a qualitative,
or even a mixed design researcher?
Eleonore:
Dr. Emily, I'm so appreciative of your time we all need inspiring role [00:02:00] models that do something different based on their PhD. I want to start with two warming up questions, and I hope that you are game?
Are you a quant or a qualitative or even mixed design researcher at heart?
Emily:
I think I'm a blend of qualitative and quantitative. My background is in communication and anthropology. I love data, I love numbers, I love the quant side, however, that is not my strength or my skill set. I love having that because it's data driven insights that kind of puts it with the human behavior and the organizational culture. So, I find that I'm a blend of both kind of mixed methods design that it also depends on your [00:03:00] audience and how you're communicating the data to them. That some, it could be the same type of data, and sometimes you present it in a quantitative form, and sometimes you present it in qualitative form.
Eleonore:
All right. Then I have another question that maybe is a little bit more juicier. What's your worst, but also your best business experience since you earned your educational doctorate degree?
Emily:
Oh, gosh. Since I got my Ed. D., the best business experience, I, I think would be actually the having it. An Ed. D. is like a scholarly expert in the field, where my understanding, I don't have a Ph. D., but that's more the philosophy of and studying the theories, where an Ed. D. is a scholarly expert in the field. It's still based on theory. It's based on frameworks. It's based on a lot [00:04:00] of the information, but it's applied directly into the business or into the organization. So, I think that probably the best experience is having the background that then I can apply in the organization (in the professional context), i. e. being an expert in the field.
I would say the worst experience is also how to communicate that to people. Just talking about what our studies are and how it applies to the organizations that we work with, I would say is the best and the worst at the same time.
Eleonore:
That's intriguing because I would have thought that based on your explanation, that would be really a benefit.
Emily:
Oh, yes, it's a benefit to have over the PhDs that are mostly research oriented and well equipped for research, but not so much for organizations. I think if somebody has a Ph. D. or an Ed. D. or any higher degree, it's how do you explain it to those that are not in that academic setting? So, to start off and say I have a doctorate in organizational change in leadership. Then people are like, oh, that's fascinating. And then it's well, what does that mean?
Eleonore:
Okay, that already is in it an Instagram Reel: So, PostdocTransformers, if you're haven't been paying attention to that, the way you frame it will make the difference for your target group. People in business don't know about the different doctoral degrees and to what extent they might be or not be applicable in business.
Emily:
Yes, and I would say practice the communicating that it's taken even a year of [00:06:00] feedback from other people or when I describe something, hearing how somebody asks questions and it's almost as though you are crafting your elevator speech of who you are and just a little tag line, a little how are you solving a problem for someone and that then just brings people in.
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How to leverage scientific methodology
in the business decision making context
Eleonore:
So, now we'll be focusing on your topic. That is how to leverage scientific methodology in the business decision making context. And that's really, I say that you are the expert for that because you've put so much thought into how to explain your business to others.
And I think that this is already very scientific in the way of how you are testing this. I mean, you're saying that you should pitch and and then you already said that you should do a lot of practice over a couple of years with many different audiences. And that's essentially hypothesis testing.
So, first question, what were [00:08:00] your transferable skills from your scientific research that you applied to your decision making.
Emily:
Back to what we already talked about. The transferable skills is the research approach and depending on the topic, designing, research based on what the needs of the organization. And when I say organization, this could be higher education focus. This could be a nonprofit. This could be a scientific research that organization is the approach for any type of the organization.
So, I would say my most transferable skills are knowing the difference between qualitative and quantitative and knowing the data drives the insight, and so combining that with the human behavior, I like to tell people that I work with the people behind the technology.
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Have your rigorous analytical skills from your academic career enhanced your problem solving abilities in your job roles or also in your own business?
Emily:
I would say the analytical skills like the rigorous honing at my academic career are almost the cornerstone to how I solve problems now. So, I went in and my field has not changed. However, my approach and how I run things is different. So, it's enabled me to kind of take complex issues and be very strategic with the solutions that I have and also how I analyze the data.
So, before it was more experiential based and now it's more data driven and understanding theories of change and the frameworks. And so, when I work with leaders or work with people within organizations, there's a lot more background than to the skills that I'm able to [00:10:00] bring to the table.
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Data appreciation
Eleonore:
When you're talking to leaders in their organizations, what kind of data do you collect and assess?
Emily:
As I love quantitative and it makes my heart so happy to know the data. I am not a quant person.I can interpret it, though. Some people live and breathe data, and algorithms, and equations, and they just want to go into that. I find that I am someone that I can bridge the gap between the qualitative and the quantitative. So, I'm comfortable being uncomfortable, that I don't have that skill set, that strength to know about the data, though I understand the value of it. And I know that a lot of it is helping bridge the gap with the communication.
Eleonore:
Are you doing interviews with the people, [00:11:00] or are you collecting data with surveys.
Emily:
I do collect data. A lot of it will be data interviews in the initial process, but then also collecting data that they have. So, I will help analyze the data that they have. Or what's great as well, is helping if someone is working on technology and they're collecting data to help them understand. I work with organizations that are developing AI strategies or technical, tools etc. To have a clinician or to have an expert at the beginning of the development with the data scientist then allows for them understand and help them be a part of the data collection.
Eleonore:
All right, cool. So, I would assume there's a lot of unstructured data and data that is not used usable or might be disseminated. So, you're probably also looking at KPIs, key performance indicators during the business processes.
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What kind of challenges have you faced in bridging the gap between the scientific and business world?
Emily:
It's initially about translating the academic rigor into business agility. [00:13:00] So people are used to having you adapt fast in decision making process when you work in the business side of things, and so kind of blending where you have a systematic approach to leadership, organizational development, or just ensuring the decisions are data informed, but also that they're contextually relevant.
Eleonore:
How do you decide on how you want to collect the data so that you can make a choice before collecting the data.
Emily:
So, each client that I work with each organization is different, and so balancing the data, if it's qualitative or quantitative elements and kind of drawing on my diverse background with that. Also that I have to take into consideration is how this is communicated to people. Some people who might be in charge of the finances or the [00:14:00] decision making might be more familiar with the qualitative approach to research, where those in the engineering side of things might be more into the quantitative approach. So, it's looking hard at what data they have and then considering the human element to all of it. So, really understanding that the numbers are telling a story, that it's also important to bring the experiences into perspectives of the people in the organization.
Are you working in specific industries or across industries? Is it small medium businesses or is it corporate? What kind of clients do you have?
Emily:
Initially, I was working just with executives and leadership development and then I was able to expand into working in tech in the tech industry. I've worked in advertising for years. I've worked in the health field. There's a lot of similarities to different industries. So I work with individuals. I work with a [00:16:00] department or I work with a larger corporation with one aspect, mainly what I've been focusing on since my doctorate is working within teams within a larger organization or with individuals and those I'm either hired by the individual or I'm hired by the organization.
Eleonore:
Quite a mixed day to day job, right? How many clients do you have at the same time?
Emily:
I tend to have about 10 clients at a time, and those vary. So, one client I could work with every week for an hour or two for three months. Another client, I have one now where it's doing a three day seminar with their organization. So, with those, my ultimate goal is to work myself out of a job. I don't want them to need me. Ultimately, I am there to support them through the process of transitions and change.
Looking at your previous job roles and running your own business. Do you view risk assessment and hypothesis testing in the context of business decisions?
So, risk assessment, hypothesis testing is very applicable. In the academic setting and also very applicable in the business industry. So my scientific training has kind of I feel it's been invaluable because it allows me to approach businesses, risks and opportunities in a more scientific approach. So I apply hypothesis testing as a framework with exploring new strategies, and it allows me to be able to pivot Based on data and outcomes from the hypothesis testing.
Emily:
I found it's more about empowering leaders and organizations as they navigate the complexities that are going on. So, I was fortunate early in my career to have someone work with me to write my own personal mission statement, which is to use my enthusiasm and resources to help others put their healthy intentions into action. And so it's perfect because it's a blend of the academic side and the innovative leadership that I love and really being able to see clients achieve like remarkable growth personally and professionally by applying these principles. And I am there to help guide them through the little steps so they can get to the big changes.
Eleonore:
Oh, that's awesome. And I can see that from your own mission statement, that it sprouted from there. Okay, so, you already [00:22:00] talked about some clients and that you're working with executives. Can you share one or two success stories with your clients or what are the most biggest insights working with you?
Emily:
So I'll say due to confidentiality, I'm not able to share names or organizations. However, I get this question all the time. So, a lot of when I work with clients, it'll be either through transitions or they want to make a transition and they want to be very systematic and thoughtful and they're putting a lot of time and energy into things, so maybe they want to sharpen their skills in the boardroom. They want to be a better communicator with their team. They want to get a promotion or a raise, and they want to be methodical with how they do it and make sure that they're structured. Or, they could be someone that has this great career path, but inside of them, they have this creative side that they're not tapping [00:23:00] into. And I am helping them find the balance in between the two.
Who is your ideal client?
Emily:
I have found that those that have a sports background meaning they participated in sports when they were in their youth or as their adults that they understand the wins, the losses, the team dynamics, the goal setting, the setbacks that I find that clients that have had that approach, it benefits them when they're making transitions and changes because they can apply it back to a foundation that they have already learned. And a lot of what we talk about when I work with clients, too, is I'm almost as though they're their teacher academic side of things, their coach outside of the classroom. So, we learn in the classroom about certain topics. And we [00:24:00] have syllabus. We have time frames. We know how we're being tested. We know what our grade is.
And then we go into the real world outside of academics, and then at that point. Nobody's telling you, here's the syllabus for the change that you're making. Here is how you're being graded if you have an A or a B. So I'm there to help them understand the dynamics of that as well and help them almost create that structure that they would have had in their academic settings.
And that very much applies to people that worked in academics for years and then it's almost as though there's no structure. So, how do you create structure in an environment that doesn't appear to have any structure? And so that's a lot of what I do with my clients in the business side of things as well because they are very educated and now how are they not being tested, but how do they know that they're being successful [00:25:00] and moving in the right direction when they don't have the syllabus or the teacher to check back in with?
Looking back at your uni experience,
would you recommend your uni and if so, why?
Emily:
Yes, I would recommend my university (https://sportleadership.vcu.edu/). My university is one of the top ten in the world for sport leadership. A lot of people that go to the graduate program where I went to go into sports, whether it's collegiate or professional. There aren't as many probably in the direction in the path that I went into.
I went into sports because I see the value of if you're a grassroots organization or if you are in a corporate boardroom. It's about wins, losses, team dynamics, resilience, training.
When I finished the Peace Corps, I worked [00:27:00] internationally for a couple of years, and when I was done, I thought, do I want to get a Master's of Public Health?
Do I want to get a Master's of Nonprofit Management? Do I want to get an MBA? So, with that, I looked for a graduate program that could apply in the business, in the nonprofit, in the public health.
Eleonore:
So, you already talked about, your own motivation, why you chose your uni. Do you think there is an ideal candidate for that uni?
Emily:
I think it's great for anyone who's kind of curious or resilient and ready to take on challenges within the sports field. It also, allows the ability for diversity of thought, and when you were working in an academic setting when you're in a business setting, there's a lot of [00:29:00] problems and solutions.
And sometimes if you have everyone who works in the same industry in the room, then you don't have diversity of thought of seeing other approaches that could work. So from an engineering perspective, they might be able to apply something to medical from a sports environment. They might be able to apply something to a marketing team.
Eleonore:
Especially in nowadays time where you cannot really say what will be working, but instead you have to be working with whatever you have and then work out new solutions. That's why diversity of thought is really important.
What else do you wish to share?
When it comes to science, when it comes to business, as we just talked about new ideas and willing to kind of change course, based on the new information, is very relevant.
A lot of times people are emotionally invested or have spent a lot of time invested in solutions or problems or paths. And I would say be adaptable, be flexible, and be sustainable.
You probably read a lot of books on your topics.
Are there any books that you wish to recommend on your topic?
Emily:
This is where I wish I had a book club for everybody that wants to read the types of books that I read. While people are reading more mainstream stuff, I read autobiographies and business books. And I probably have about five of them going at once. And I'll rotate.
Building a StoryBrand: Clarify Your Message So Customers Will Listen
The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable
The Confidence Gap: From Fear to Freedom
Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win (New Edition)
"Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!": Adventures of a Curious Character
The Autobiography of Andrew Carnegie and the Gospel of Wealth (Signet Classics)
In Praise of Difficult Women: Life Lessons From 29 Heroines Who Dared to Break the Rules
Lifeboat 12 (English Edition)
Way of the Warrior Kid: From Wimpy to Warrior the Navy Seal Way (Way of the Warrior Kid, 1)
Eleonore:
Alright, so now that we've been talking about a potential book club that you will start and I will join, I really want to thank you for your time, Dr. Emily, for connecting the dots for PostdocTransformers, as also for Master's students who are thinking of, you know, earning a PhD, choosing a grad school that is a great fit for them.
And I think that you have shared a lot of things that they should consider content wise, but maybe also in the sense of, are they the good fit for the graduate school? Because I think that the more you are embracing the diversity of thought and diversity of personalities and [00:35:00] backgrounds and industry or across industry experience, the better you will benefit from whatever academics will be able to tell you because the real net worth will come from your network.
Thank you so much for connecting the dots on leveraging scientific methodology in business decision making.
Dr. Emily, how can my listeners reach out to you? Do you have a website or is there anything that you offer?
Emily:
I love to be in touch with your listeners and see how I can support them through their transitions of change. Mastersoftheday.com is the website that they can find me on and they can also find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mastersoftheday/ as well, and find me on LinkedIn Dr. Emily Rosenthal.
If you go to the website, there's ways to connect and lots of different social media outlets, but please be in touch. [00:36:00] And the more I hear from your listeners, the more I know what I can do to support them and their transitions.
Eleonore:
Yeah, I think that , that bit on the mission statement was really important because when you know your mission, then you can always dismiss ill fitted job offers.
Emily:
And that's a great example of having your mission statement is like a North Star. And it helps guide you on your path. And as you said, if there's something that doesn't align with your mission, a lot of times it helps you know what to say no to, so you can be on the path to yes.
Eleonore: Okay. Maybe I should visit your website and get the mission statement.
Right. All right, cool. Thank you so much for this time. I know that I already want to invite you for a net for a second round or even a third round. So would you be game to come back to the PostdocTransformation show?
Emily:
I love it. I'm inspired just talking about this now that makes me want to be even more involved with what you're doing. Yes, [00:37:00] please.
Thank you for reading our full transcript of this episode. For season 3 & 4 of the PostdocTransformation show, we will interview industry experts, leaders in the corporate world, but also companies serving early career scientists leaping into business.
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Remember, you are a PostdocTransformer. You are highly intelligent, well educated, a bachelor, master, and maybe you have already your doctor under your belt, or you are a postdoc. You are internationally experienced, fluent in English, a leader and expert in your prior research field. You're resilient, brilliant in adaptation.
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All right, thanks for listening and I hope that you will watch our show and also listen to our show for the next episodes. And like I said, go back to the previous episodes. I think they have valuable insights for you.
Please ask away your career transition questions (connect with Eleonore on your preferred social), as we aim to create future episodes for our audience. We appreciate every one of you!
Until the next episode,
Cheers,
Eleonore & Team PostdocTransformation
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