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Episode 0028 Shownotes
Being more than#IchBinHanna,
with Dr. Kristin Eichhorn
Are you an international early career scientist looking for a PhD program or postdoc position in Germany? Well, in this rare interview, I sit down with Privatdozentin Dr. Kristin Eichhorn, coauthor of the book #IchBinHanna as she discusses the precarity in academic employment. From the hierarchical system in Germany to the struggles faced by post-docs Kristin sheds light on the realities of being a researcher. Discover why she co- initiated a powerful campaign and how you can support the cause. But it's not just about academia. It's about how she leads her own students to develop critical thinking, societal [00:01:00] change and how she role models her passion to make a difference. Don't miss this eye-opening interview that will change your perspective on the research in Germany.
Join us and be part of the #IchBinHanna movement, by also following and supporting Dr. Kristin Eichhorn in social media as linked here: LinkedIn, X, Mastodon
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Dr. Kristin Eichhorn as a scientist
Kristin Eichhorn is currently a substitute professor for Modern German Literature at the University of Stuttgart.
She is an expert on 18th-century literature and expressionism, and editor of her own journal Expressionismus.
She is one of the co-initiators of the campaigns #95vsWissZeitVG and #IchBinHanna that address precarity in academic employment.
Eleonore:
Welcome to the PostdocTransformation Show. I'm welcoming here today Privatdozentin Dr. Kristin Eichhorn, and I'm so honored because she is one of the co-authors of this book, which I'm holding here into the camera #IchBinHanna and the other co-authors are Amrei Bahr and Sebastian Kubon and I will link to their resources as well in the show notes.
But before we dive right into the updates of your campaign, #IchBinHanna, to address precarity in academic employment, I'm really curious about you as a scientist. Welcome to the show, Privatdozentin Dr. Kristin Eichhorn!
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
Hello. Thank you for having me.
Eleonore:
My pleasure. Before we dive right in, I would like to learn more about your personality as [00:03:00] a researcher. The number one question is I said Privatdozentin. When I look into your CV, you are currently a substitute professor, can you please explain what that is for my international audience?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
Germany has this very hierarchical system where the professorship is basically the end of the career or the high point of your career. I'm sort of in between that: when you do your postdoc and then you're qualified to become a professor, but you have to get to this level first.
Sometimes there's a situation where a professorship is vacant because someone has left the job and they haven't had time to call someone new. In this situation, you have a substitute. This is the kind of position I'm in. I'm in a particular situation because I have to substitute for a very long time because this is a special situation.
But usually you do this like for a semester or two.
What is Dr. Kristin Eichhorn's research area?
Eleonore:
Now that we understand where your situation is within academia, I would love to understand, why are you a scientist? What is your research area?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
I am a [00:04:00] scientist in modern German literature and it's very important to understand what modern means in this context because this term goes back to the late 19 hundreds. So, you have to understand that modern means basically everything from the 17th century until today. This is a very broad research area of German literature.
I myself specialize mostly in 18th century literature. I've written my dissertation on the fable of the enlightenment. I have another research area in the early 20th century. I have a journal on expressionism I'd like to mention here.
Eleonore:
Oh wow. I don't know a lot of scientists who have already before becoming a professor, their own journal. So, you're the editor, right?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
Yeah, I just, I just started one.
Eleonore:
Yeah. That's great. That tells a lot about your own personality because you initiated a campaign that, we already said pre-recording, that is so needed in Germany.
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
Mm-Hmm.
What are Dr. Kristin Eichhorn's research plans?
Eleonore:
All right. But we'll talk about that later. What are your research plans when you have a full [00:05:00] tenured professorship?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
As a German literature scholar, very often, you don't really need that much additional funding If you have a good library, you can basically work on anything. So, I'm basically continuing to do what I do now. Right now I am working on a project that I've started with the Literaturarchiv in Marburg, which is around the corner.
I'm currently at Stuttgart, so this is not far away. We're doing a project on the small journals of expressionism. Expressionism is an art movement of the early 20th centuries, and it took place in a lot of journals and news papers. And very often these journals were very short-lived. So, they had like just one or two editions or just ran for a year or something like that.
A lot of that material is still kind of unused for research. And so what we're gonna do is look into these little journals and we hope that we can get some money and make them digitally available in a better format than they are now.
So, that's one of the projects I'm currently working on. I'm also trying to [00:06:00] delve in again into 17 and 18th century topics. I'm working on project right now, which I call Men in Love. The idea behind this is, there are all these novels in the 18th century.
You know, you have a young woman who's innocent and virtuous, and there's a man who's trying to seduce her. Got me to the idea that we could look at the masculine side of love, because very often that's not a topic of discussion because you have love poems and of course there's research on that.
But when they are from a male perspective and written by a man, this is just, well, concepts of love, you don't really talk about what's the particular male aspect of that.
I wanna kind of close the gap between these two discussions in research.
How does Dr. Kristin Eichhorn teach and why?
Eleonore:
Well, that sounds interesting, and I bet that that is also interesting to your students. Talking about your students, can you tell me how do you teach and why you do you teach the way you do?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
I'm just actually planning to do a lecture on this the next semester, so this could be interesting. First of all, you have to know that in German literature it is [00:07:00] common that, except for the introductory courses can just pick something that we wanna delve into and students have the same free selection.
Just try something new and experiment a little bit. I try to always have canonical literature in the focus because we teach a lot of students that are gonna be German teachers later on. We have a large group of people who just move to the schools, we have to see that they know the regular literature, this is very important, but also always include a little bit of something that is different.
And because if you did the regular canon, you would all have men, right? So, we have to kind of mix this up a little bit. That's one thing I try to do. And right now at Stuttgart, I have the opportunity to teach a few courses that are special. Usually I lead the discussion. That's the regular format that we have.
But right now I have a few opportunities where I coach people working on their own projects. At the end of their master's degree they can pick another subject that they haven't really had [00:08:00] time to work through during their courses that they've taken and individually pick that and, and then just, you know, read it some, and then we can have a little conversation at the end of the semester.
This is basically mixing up the regular structure a little bit. That's a lot of fun because they have so many different ideas. And it's also challenging because of course, I don't know all of them. I'm not an expert in all of these fields. So, it's very interesting just to bring forth the potential in students.
It's not always important that I am the expert in the field myself. Very often it's helping them become experts in the area that they like to work in.
Eleonore:
So, that was great for me taking the position of a student.
What Dr. Kristin Eichhorn wants to seed in her bachelor and master students, beyond the script
Eleonore:
Is there anything else that you want to seed in your own bachelor and master students beyond the script, beyond the whatever you teach?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
I think in general, we always aim for critical thinking, so that people have the opportunity to find their own interest levels and be able to work up material, find their own ways, but also to [00:09:00] analyze things critically. I think, that's an important skill, especially in the political setting that we have today.
You would think that literature is basically irrelevant. That's actually not what it is, because what we do is you read these texts and you learn to analyze the meaning. And there are always important topics. Like I'm in the 18th century, so, you can say the 18th century is very far removed, but actually a lot of the discussions are very insightful and they can tell you that the way things are today uh, don't have to be this way.
In a different century we looked at it from a different perspective. That you can take a different perspective is also I think a skill that students can take into their own lives.
Eleonore:
Absolutely agreed. That's also an outcome that will benefit every student that you will have.
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#IchBinHanna describes what researchers in Germany feel facing the working conditions in academia
Eleonore:
All right, so now I would love to switch gears and to dive into the second topic that I already alluded to earlier.
You are the co-author of several campaigns, and the current campaign is #IchBinHanna, and [00:11:00] just to give my audience a little bit more background information. Kristin gave an interview to Teresa Völker in March, 2023 in her blog Elephant in the Lab, and I will link to that blog article because it's so detailed and so accurate. But now that I have you on the show, I would love to have you summarize and add updates on #IchBinHanna.
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn: Well, first of all, you have to know that #IchBinHanna is originally a Twitter campaign that I've done with Amrei Bahr and Sebastian Kubon. It's important to know that #IchBinHanna means I am Hanna. The question is, who is Hanna? Hanna is a character from a video that was done by the Ministry for Education and they were trying to explain the law that gives way to hiring people on non-permanent contracts in research. In Germany, there's a specific law that allows you researchers on non-term contracts for six years before their PhD and for another six years after PhD.
This [00:12:00] is an employment situation that would not be legal in another field. This is specifically for researchers. They presented this whole situation in the video like this is a really great thing, like innovation is necessary, needs fluctuation to, to come through.
And then had this nice phrase where they said one generation should not clog the system. Basically we all just have to leave science in the end, so another generation has the great chance of experiencing, that work environment and get their PhDs and other qualifications.
A little bit about the situation and the way we work: the short term contract. Sometimes people are hired only for a year or just a few months. If you're lucky, you get a three year contract, and that situation can last very long in your career.
Most researchers, if you stay in science, will probably end up in their mid forties and they either find a professorship, which is hard to do, or they drop out and then they have to find [00:13:00] another job. And that's obviously very hard to do when you are that far in your career and you have never done anything else.
Depending on your field, it might be harder or easier, but in general, this is just a situation that is not very good. So, we have no almost no permanent contracts. You have people working overtime without pay. Giving up everything, leaving their families from Tuesday to Thursday because they're living in another town because they have to commute hundreds of kilometers and so on.
So, this is a very bad situation. And I think it's been known in research circles for a long, long time, but it wasn't really until the pandemic, until we managed to build up over Twitter a community that actually addresses these issues. So, we started with another campaign where we collected 95 theses against the law (#95vsWissZeitVG). That was a little funny thing on Reformation Day, if you're familiar with Martin Luther, he had these 95 theses, so we did a little spin on that. But the really successful thing was #IchBinHanna where we [00:14:00] identified with Hanna as a character. This is a fictional character for whom everything is great.
We said we identify and we show the real people and their real struggles behind that. We get a more realistic picture of what that looks like. That turned out quite successful. It was a good narrative for the press as well, so that's the general situation.
Why and how is Dr. Kristin Eichhorn fighting for #IchBinHanna
Eleonore:
When I was listening and also reading through your book, I had so many triggering moments. I'm probably 10 years older, many memories also bad memories came up and I know a lot of my professors who had this Zweitwohnung somewhere else. Monteurswohnung, it's called. I saw many female professors not having children, even though they wanted, they even asked to babysit because they said that they would've loved to have children. And it breaks my heart to see so many people in their mid forties to sort of like, have to change gears in their careers, especially if they'd never wanted to be something else, but to become a professor. But that's enough about my emotional turmoil when I was reading your book, what are your own upcoming that you plan?
I mean, you just have a recent event in Germany and what else is on their plate?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
Basically since the campaign started, we've been going around doing podcasts and [00:16:00] interviews or discussions. So I'm gonna have two discussions on a podium in January. So, one will be in Paderborn on the 24th, and then I'm moving from there to Bielefeld on the 26th.
So, this is very convenient because these two cities are not that far apart. So basically this is what we're doing right now. I should probably say a little bit something about where we are right now. After this campaign, there was a big debate, and then the new government had planned to do a reform on the law, and they're currently working on that.
They made a proposal in July of this year. We are now in November. So you can see, this has been a long time in the making. The problem with this reform proposal is that it doesn't really change that much. So, we work, we work really hard to get through to them, but right now there's also a lot of lobbyists from the other side because, you know, the research institutions mostly want things to remain as they are so they can just hire a staff and let them go [00:17:00] again.
There's really a lot of activism against a general change of the system, which we so desperately need, not just for researchers, but it's also science itself suffers from that because we already have problems finding people to hire here. And then they have all these short-term projects that end somewhere and all the public money that gets wasted just because a project is started and then you build on a website where you buy a big, I don't know, some big device that is super expensive. And then the person who knows how to handle this, how to do the research is gone because their contract has run out. So, this is a really bad situation, but it's very hard to bring about change.
Now the proposed law lies there in the government between the several ministries and they're kind of fighting over what kind of law should come out of this. So this is sort of a waiting period. That's where we're in right now. So, we're trying to, well, you know, raise the pressure again so we can get a perform that actually makes things better [00:18:00] and not just continues them as they are for the most part.
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How early career scientists can support the #IchBinHanna movement
Eleonore:
Wow. And just listening to that makes me see that you spend a lot of time on that. And I also, you read, I also read that in your book, I mean, you do this activism in your spare time as a researcher who doesn't have a lot of financial support and also no other resources. So how can we support you because you are supporting us. I mean, the next generation of scientists. How can we support you?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
Well, there's many ways you can do that. On the one hand, it's important just to stay informed, stay up to date, and then make yourself heard. There are many ways to do that depending on what level you are on or what kind of activism if you like, you have time for, or how public you wanna go.
You can, you can also start on social media can start an account there, which can also be anonymous and just, you know share these topics. I think it's very important that you share them with your colleagues also, because that's why I wanna do [00:19:00] this podcast with you because we have that thing that this is mostly a discussion that happens in the German speaking community.
Why knowing about #IchBinHanna is key for international early career scientists in Germany
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
And we hear that researchers who come from abroad well they speak English and they don't often have access to all the information. I mean, we try to bring that out, but a lot of discussion is in German. Well, that's just how it is. So if you have that knowledge, then spread the knowledge.
I think that's very important because especially people who come from abroad, they need to know what situation they're in because very often when they have a non-permanent contract, they don't get to stay in the country because, then their right runs out, they have to go back to their own country because they have no contract or the contract comes only a day before they start working.
So, there's a lot of problems international researchers have that we as German citizens will not have. So it's very important, I think, so at least to know what system you're working in. Even if you don't protest against it, it's just for your own survival. It's very important that you know what the situation is.
So, if you have access to the information and, you [00:21:00] know, colleagues who don't, spread the word.
Eleonore: Absolutely. And it's also important to sort of know that before you come to Germany, and as we all know, I'm also in Germany, so we could have been talking in German as well, probably much easier, but we chose to speak in English so that we can reach the ones who need to hear that.
You need to make an informed decision if you want to come as a postdoc to Germany, and I know a lot of international scientists here who try to make it and to become a professor.
It's harder if you have a different background, that also raised the hashtag #IchBinReyhan because there are differences on top of our challenges, on top being affected not just being a scientist, but also maybe if you come from a different background.
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Dr. Kristin Eichhorn's advice for
bachelor and master students
Eleonore:
Now that we have discussed that whatever is coming up [00:23:00] for#IchBinHanna and how we can support you, maybe there's also things that you want to sort of like recommend to my various target groups.
So, for example, as you also have bachelor and master students, we'll start there. What do you recommend to aspiring talented bachelor and master students?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
You may not be necessarily directly affected by the situation in the system but your teachers or your professors might be. It helps just to know what kind of system you're working in, you're studying in, because especially in German studies, we have the situation where we have a lot of research, a lot of papers to grade after semester.
So, if someone has like a super heavy teaching load and works overtime all the time, so it can sometimes take months before a paper is being graded, and the students very often don't understand why that is. Think it's just this lazy person there, but that's not usually the case.
Very often these are structural problems. And then we have a situation where people constantly leave. So, you don't know, [00:24:00] who to talk to in a particular situation, who has the knowledge. So, that makes things difficult for students. So, again, when it comes to students, I would just say, try to understand the system you know, that you're working in because also students are a much bigger group than we are.
So, if you join us in our protest for better working and studying conditions, we have a much better chance of raising awareness if we come together as a much larger group.
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What does Dr. Kristin Eichhorn recommend to current doctoral students?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
If you want to do your PhD, that's perfectly fine. So, you don't necessarily have to worry that this will be the end of your career or something you have to drop out of the system before, but also again you should be aware of what you're getting into. We have a very hierarchal system, so make sure, you know, where you draw the line. Very often, you have a job as a PhD, you're gonna end up with 50% pay and a hundred percent work or something like that. There's a lot of ideology going on that tells you that it's the way it needs to be done and science is so special and you have to take all that, you know, it's very important.
Be aware of these stories that are being told and just don't buy them. Make sure that you understand what it is you want outta the system, why you're doing it. And if you think that you wanna do this and these conditions are reasonable, they work for you, then that's perfectly fine. But don't take up with everything, just make sure you know where you draw the line. I think that's very [00:26:00] important because you do have other options. Usually you are very qualified. Be aware of that. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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What does Dr. Kristin Eichhorn recommend to current postdoc scientists?
Eleonore:
What do you recommend to current postdocs?
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn:
Well, current postdocs, that's the most difficult group to advise, I think most people will have understood what the system, does or does not do for them at this point. So, it depends kind of where you are in your career. You [00:27:00] have to be aware that the longer you stay in research, the harder it will become to well get out or find a job elsewhere.
So, if you're still in the early stages, again, do the same thing as the PhD students. Think about what you want and how long you're gonna do this. Just draw a line for you, make a goal. You could probably say, well, if I don't have a permanent job at, I don't know, 40, I'm gonna drop out or something like that.
Uh, maybe sooner, possibly, probably sooner. But you should have like a goal for yourself and also see if there are other options so you don't fall into nothing. This is also very important, so the longer you go on, the more trouble you will have.
But while you are in the system, once you are there and if the situation is as it is, then at least try to do what you can to make it better while you're here. I think that's also an important thing. There are little things you can do. You don't even have to start a big campaign. Sometimes it's just write a few posts on social media that doesn't take a lot of time. Or, you know, think when, if you get to the level of running a group where you have to hire your own people, [00:28:00] try not to suppress them.
Do not carry on these narratives. Make sure that the people around you who work for you, go home on the weekends and don't take the laptops with them. Things like that can really make a big difference when you have on a such a small level where you have your influence, think about what kind of influence you have for you, for yourself or for others, and, see what you can do to make things better, even if you're not gonna make a big change at this particular point.
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn role models the change we need for researchers and their students in Germany
Eleonore:
Wow, so many things that are so valuable, and I hope that my own students, but also my PostdocTransformers who are listening to this will maybe repeat that and, and try to understand at which phase they are and what they can do to make the change happen.
Because that change is well needed in Germany. And I suppose that when I listen to my colleagues all over the place in different countries, it's a similar pattern. Academia is a beast in the sense of it takes labor, cheap labor and doesn't care about the [00:29:00] individuals so much. So, you need to draw the line, as you just said, and to know when you know when it's better to quit to sort of prioritize your own needs instead of serving an ideal that is not serving you.
Thank you so much, Privatdozentin Dr. Kristin Eichhorn. It was a pleasure to talk to you. I would love to have you as a professor because when I was studying, I didn't have so many professors that were female, and I would've loved to have someone who is so realistic. And not just up in the air in the ivory tower talking about things that are maybe relevant to her research, but not so much caring about my situation as a student. So I am really thankful that you took the time to share your message of #IchBinHanna also from my English community, and I'll make sure that we will disseminate that all over the place.
Dr. Kristin Eichhorn: So, thank you very much for the kind words and for having [00:30:00] me. I was very happy to be here.
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