PostdocTransformation show for scienctists leaping into business
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Episode 0032 Shownotes
Marie-Curie postdoc fellowship
to thrive in the academic and non-academic sector, with
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien
Discover the inspiring journey of Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien, recipient of the prestigious Marie-Curie postdoc fellowship, as she shares valuable insights and practical tips for early career scientists venturing into business. Don’t accept a badly paid postdoc, without listening to this episode of the PostdocTransformation show! Learn, how she networks interdisciplinary to create a purposeful career capitalizing on her scientific and industry background! Hosted by Prof. Dr. Eleonore Soei-Winkels.
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Dr. Ana de Almeida's motivation for a purposeful work
Eleonore:
Welcome to the PostdocTransformation show. I am delighted to host Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien, an industry expert in the context of environmental consultancy. And what does it mean? She translates science for regulatory agencies and companies. And as this is a global challenge, I want to know, how do you see the future of work and really the future of our lives to be determined by our environment?
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
Hi, Eleonore it's pleasure to be with you today here. I'm really excited about this work I'm doing as I'm working with environmental consultancy specifically on water quality indicators. So, I'm a consultant right now. I work for a company in Italy that serves some of the offices of the European Commission.
So, we're looking at microbial quality and what will [00:02:00] be a problem or will need to be regulated in the next years. So, I think pollution is something that we have to pay more and more attention because our soils, our water, our air is, they're quite, you know, burdened by contamination. And we need to find ways to keep everybody healthy so the animals, us, the plants.
So, this is really a cool job and I'm really excited about it.
Eleonore:
Absolutely. And to be honest, as I am also a mom just like you, I can only celebrate you for doing something that is based on your PhD. So purposeful and so future proofing. So, that really is valuable and has a higher meaning.
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
You are right Eleonore. Have been that driven before I became a mom, you know? But after I had my son two years ago, things just took a new perspective. Our work, like environmental work became so more relevant [00:03:00] in the last years and we're breaking all the records in heat and emissions.
We really have a lot of work to do and we need to find the right people to collaborate. And I know there are many scientists like me that are just looking for the right work to do with the right team.
The value of non-academic work experience between her PhD and her postdoc
Eleonore:
Okay, you had practical experience right after the PhD. So, which one of your roles at previous regulatory agencies were the ones are shareworthy for early career scientists who want to leap into business and industries.
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
I'm really gonna focus on my first role after the PhD I did in Ireland, a PhD focus on drinking water treatment and microbial indicators. We're using different technologies, light and catalysis. So, I had to rely on my chemist, friends. And that work was very relevant because I got a referral from my PhD supervisor, and I have to give her credit [00:04:00] here.
These relationships in academia are very important, so she is an an Irish person and leadership person referring me to a job. Because I was looking for a job. And it was hard because as a Brazilian studying abroad, I needed to enter that network. And she was the bridge for me. I found, a company in Ireland.
They were developing, a technology to clean rain water and they were called, rain safe water, and they needed scientists. And two of my Irish PhD colleagues ended up working there. They were chemists as well. And we were trying to figure out, there is no regulations for, you know, treating harvest rainwater in Europe yet, but we had to figure out how to make that water portable.
That was amazing because in a startup, and I think it's a great place for PhDs, entering the job market. You learn a lot in a startup environment. You might not have the same job security or perks that you have in an established company, but you have so much opportunity to [00:05:00] grow. And that's what, what happened to me.
I was a regulatory, you know, agent and then I became head of microbiology because I had the knowledge they needed and I set up a lab, I had a team. Was just the best experience for me after the PhD. Really recommended. I would recommend for PhDs looking to startups.
Eleonore:
Wow. So it's important to have an environment where you are appreciated and where growth is also attributed to you based on what you bring to the table from your PhD.
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Eleonore:
You are Brazilian. You now live in Spain, I also see Ireland on your CV. So, you did a consultancy job there, right. Can you explain what you did exactly there?
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
Sure, so in Ireland, I did my PhD. I had my first industry experience. I had a couple of other jobs in industry as well, but I did come across some consultancy work. In [00:07:00] 2017 I worked, for a company called BlueTech Research as an external consultant, and that was my first really experience into consultancy.
And I found really interesting because there's so many different projects and, it was, again, there it comes, what I said, to you before, Eleonore, that we are not in a box. We can do work that, you know, spans in different directions and we can serve clients and solve problems that are basically, if you go one field, you can actually branch out to many other fields.
Pollution, for example, specialized in microbial pollution. But depending on the type of query a company would have, I could work with. Chemistry, chemical pollution and so forth. So I did have this experience of consultancy in Ireland. It was very cool. I did a webinar, I wrote reports for their clients and I learned a lot.
And it was the same period I was writing my Marie-Curie fellowship and this company was actually a partner of my fellowship. Now we, [00:08:00] so they were a condiment company. And they were providing intelligence for my team, for my project is we are exchanging a lot of information.
So, I think Ireland taught me about the entrepreneurial skills. Before I came to Spain, I did a postdoc in business with a group, an engineering group. So I was actually immersed in engineering work, and energy reduction for water networks. And that's again, they knew I was a microbiologist, but because I could translate my microbiology skills into engineer applications and take the industry and consult experience to sell that to Trinity, they hired me and I would've stayed there and worked with them for longer if I didn't get the Marie-Curie.
So, and I said, okay, if I did a postdoc in in business, we can do anything. You just need to, you know, be able to translate those skills to where they are needed and find your niche, find your people. [00:09:00] So, yeah, I learned all of that in Ireland, and I'm a big fan of, you know, branching out your career to what you like to do.
Eleonore:
Wow. That was really interesting if you are a microbiologist and you can thrive in an engineering context, that adds to the story that you share now. Right. I also strongly advocate for your leap is determined by yourself and not by the degree that you got. I can underline your take in the sense that we need to think out of the box, and if we are put into a box, then we should always argue for a bigger box or no box at all.
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Eleonore:
And now I wanna switch gears a little bit, that is really exciting to see that a PhD right from the bench can find meaningful positions and also through networking, leverage the way into some other positions. So, you mentioned Marie-Curie, and now obviously I'm curious and I already looked up some of your articles and they have featured you as someone who has been extraordinary.
For an early career [00:11:00] scientist, like a PhD or a master's student from all over the world, what is the program called Marie-Curie Fellowships?
Click to read more about her Marie Curie experience, as shared by the Marie Curie Alumni - Brazil Chapter
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
Okay. Eleonore, so the Marie-Curie fellowships there. Are very special. So there are programs from the European Commission to fund both PhDs and postdocs, but they have some features that are very special. First of all, they recognize the researcher as someone that is a worker. And so their fund is generally much higher than a usual or an average PhD or postdoc.
So, that means they are paying you like industry space. And it's really important because the financial aspect of research is something that really needs improvement. And this is one of the reasons why I left a position I had before to come back and do a postdoc because I was being valued in the market ranges that someone in industry of my age would be valued in experience.
And I think this is important to bring talent into research recognizing the [00:12:00] financial aspect as well. Apart from that, the Marie-Curie funding really, is really foster that researchers, do connection with between countries in Europe and also their global funding that you can do that with America or other countries in the world.
So, this exchanging between, countries and, the mobility of researchers so that there is connection between country, between companies and universities, this is really important for them because they want to fund researchers that are gonna be in the market, not only in academia. And that was very attractive to me.
Eleonore:
That's cool. The article came out a year ago. Is there anything that you can add now after one year?
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
Sure. There are two points of that article. I really wanted to write something meaningful that reflected both my gratitude for the European Commission to have funded my research, but also, you know, all the career development I received in Spain. The languages, the connections, but also what that meant to me, because [00:13:00] I knew from the start I was gonna go back to industry after my postdoc. And I wanted to write something to inspire and motivate researchers that were, you know, in the timeline of before mine. So one thing is about whatever you did, postdoc, PhD does not put you in a box, or you can only do that in the future.
And you really need to be able to tell that story to employers because we can do nearly anything in the right team with right conditions. And that's the beauty of doing a PhD is that capacity you get to do things, in areas that are yours or correlated. It does not matter. The second thing is balance and family and mental health.
I'm gonna mention my PhD supervisor again, because that woman was really a landmark in my life. And she always said, if you cannot do your job between nine to five, you cannot do your job. And she didn't want us to stay late in the lab because we needed balance. And that's what I think it's a, it's a major difference between, you know, academia and no academic jobs, is that limit where people really finish the job and they live.
It's not because they're lazy or anything because we need space, space for other areas of our life that nurture our [00:15:00] capacity to be, you know, good workers and develop good projects. And academia, sometimes that boundary is really broken and we just work and work and work and for what you really need to be sane and healthy doing, you know, any job you're doing.
So, I learned that in my Marie-Curie and I felt valued in that regard by my funding.
Her determination to move the needle for her environmental work
Eleonore: Oh, that's wonderful news. I was not a Marie-Curie fellow, but if I were a PhD student or a postdoc looking for funding, that would be really a good recommendation, now that I have learned about that. So, I'm [00:17:00] really happy to have learned something new that I can now share with my PostdocTransformers on the PostdocTransformation show.
So, thank you for that as well. Now, I already said, I'm a mom too, and I remember when I applied for jobs being pregnant or looking for a job, when I had a toddler, it felt different for me applying as a mom versus applying without a kid. So I remember that I put in my cv, I have a kid, but I also have daycare for 45 hours a week. And then the recruiter said, I never saw this. And I was like, yeah, this is because I wanna sort of show you before we talk that I'm available full-time. So how about you?
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
It was good to have, my child while a Marie Curie fellow because I was also part-time and I also had daycare nine to five, and I [00:18:00] always alternated with my husband, the daycare. , you know, kids, I think we need to say the truth because there is no shame on it. There shouldn't be, you know, a stigma on being a mother or being a father and having small kids.
They get sick. There'll be days you have to be off, but if you trust an employee, a person. That is responsible for a family. They need that work. They will want to give you a good job because they have a level of responsibility. And I say that even more for environmental, you know, scientists and people dealing with this challenges we have in environmental today, they're really committed.
Nobody, in sane mind is going to drop an opportunity, because of not being able to cope with childcare. People make arrangements and everything can make, you know, can, can work when you're organized and you have a strategy. And I don't have family support in Spain. You know, my family is in [00:19:00] Brazil, my husband is Italian.
We figured out maybe one of us has to take a little bit of less hours. We'll make it work. Families with more kids make work because the work we are doing is too important for that to be, you know an obstacle. So that's what I can say, Eleonore, this is my drive, and I think it's the drive of most parents really.
Eleonore:
Absolutely.
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Ensure your productivity as needed, like in online and real life co-working spaces
Eleonore:
Ana, when I found you on LinkedIn, I had the impression that you are quite efficient and productive and everyone who knows me knows that I'm keen on understanding how one can be productive and efficient. So, can you tell me a little bit more about your coworking experience?
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
Okay. So, Flown came into my life, in this year when I started being a consultant because I lost my office, I had in the research center here, and I really missed my colleagues and the environment because one of the things that is challenging for families is the organization. [00:20:00] And after the pandemic, I think everybody was saturated from working from home or wanted to create some space.
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So, I needed a solution. You basically log in online and you do sessions where you say what you're gonna do. How long it's gonna take. And they have coaches that are always kind of timing people and sharing techniques for concentration, meditation. I really love this kind of tools.
Flown is one I use. I've been with them for nine months. It just improved so much. My work, I start doing a session. I have a task, I finish and that's it.
I also have a physical coworking space because I really needed to go out and work in a more professional set up for my consultancy. And also because I needed people around me. You know, people are different, but I really enjoy having my colleagues here, you need to find virtual or physical tools. You know that as a psychologist, I'm not telling this to you, Eleonore, but for the listeners, we need to find tools where we feel like we're [00:21:00] okay.
It feels good to work. Mental health, we need to find all the resources we can, we can afford, maybe we can't afford the coworking space physically, it doesn't matter. Find something that works for you.
Don't work alone, as comunity can help you network across academia and non-academic settings
Eleonore:
While I was listening to your online co-working space, I was thinking, is this a great tool? Maybe also for PhD students who are currently writing up their thesis? Because I think that maybe you can have a writing cohort, but maybe sometimes it's too niched down and you need something else. So would you recommend flow as well for something like a thesis writing or article writing?
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
Absolutely. And in fact, the community in Flown is also, I dunno, the percentage, but [00:23:00] there are many academics there and many PhD students that are writing up. with flown and on Fridays they're always free. So, you know, we can always join. You just need to register and you can join all the sessions for free to see if that's something that could work for you or not.
And maybe just have one day that you know, because of course finances are important. Always important to consider.
Eleonore:
I was thinking do you have a discount code that you can share referring a friend to that great experience? I mean, when I wrote up my thesis, there was nothing like that available. And maybe that is a great resource that I can, or you can now share for my postdoc transformers.
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
Sure. Um, I know, uh, I can send my link. I have, uh, a link that I think I actually get to the discount, but I need to check that I have one that people can register on Fridays for free. So, you know, you check if it's something that works for you, you have a look. I just think if it's flow or something else, these tools are amazing, [00:24:00] you know, this companionship online.
So, you get your stuff done.
Eleonore:
What I think is beautiful about that is because it's not purely academic that also dovetails with your first point regarding networking, right? For academics who have always been just in the academic space, and that's no offense at all, but I mean, talking with other academics won't help you to leap out of science. So, you need to make friends, so to speak, with other people who are already in business. So, this way you can learn about more opportunities and so on, so forth, just like Ana has already discussed.
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien's future career outlook
Eleonore:
All right, so now that we have already looked into your previous job experiences and also what you have shared with our early career scientists who are leaping into business, I would love to know what are your plans and what is in your outlook?
Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien:
[00:26:00] I, so I'm doing a very, deep work on market researching my skills and where they could serve for industries and companies in Europe. Right now, because I have to be based in Europe, I cover a number of languages, so I can speak Portuguese, Spanish, English. Italian. Most likely I'm gonna head to Italy next year for family reasons.
So, I'm gonna scale my Italian. I want to, it's essential. You, you live in Germany, right? So it's essential to speak the language of the country top. So this is my goal right now. I want to speak the, the most beautiful Italian, but I do need to continue remote for, most of my time. And I'm so glad the pandemic opened that door.
For us scientists to work remotely at least a little bit. That's fantastic. I'm so excited about that change. So I want to serve consultancy companies and, organizations that have environmental problems and need people to translate science into policy. All the opposite. I can do that, [00:27:00] especially environmental pollution.
Specialization would be water, but I can cover soil, I can cover chemistry, contamination. I love everything. And I do want to work with people that are trying to reduce emissions. Absolutely. This is a, I'm not compromising that my, you know, our kids need a future and I'm not letting that go. So, and I know there are people looking for skills like that.
What I would like to do now, Eleonore is really, talk to leaders that are having, environmental headaches. And I know, the regulations in Europe, both for CO2 emissions and for water reductions are gonna become more strict. The pesticides we use will have to be changed.
So, there will be a lot of pressure on production industry to. Greener. But when I say become greener, it is, I really mean it. It's not like greenwash. It's really do the job. And I really want to talk to people that are having problems there that could use my [00:28:00] set of skills. I also have colleagues that I collaborate that we know if the work is too much, I put a team together, I can find solutions for for people that are having this actual business problems and need to meet regulations in Europe, both for water quality and CO2 reduction.
So, and I just can't wait to start doing this work 2024.
Eleonore:
All right, perfect. And I'll make sure that we'll publish this episode soon enough because I really think that we don't have any time to lose.
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