PostdocTransformation show for scienctists leaping into business
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Episode 0047 Shownotes
In this episode of the PostdocTransformation show, Dr. Belinda di Bartolo from Australia shares her journey of managing motherhood and a career in science. She speaks candidly about the challenges of balancing family and academia, especially highlighted during the COVID-19 pandemic. She discusses her transition from academia to industry and her own business with BD STEMM Strategies, providing career guidance primarily to women and mothers in STEMM. She explains why building personal brand and networking as a scientist are vital, why being honest about career aspirations is key to avoid revelations late in your career.
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About our PostdocTransformation show
Invest in your PostdocTransformation. Welcome to the seasonal show for scientists leaping into business. In every sponsored episode, we are happy to recommend employers of choice for you. Make sure to check your readiness to leap out of science with us for free, as linked in the show notes. For your career transition, we offer customized career transition e-courses and memberships, also at graduate schools all over the world.
Maybe yours too. And if your university isn't yet our customer, enroll in your free email course for career transition made simple as linked in the show notes. I'm your host, Professor Dr. Eleonore Soei Winkels, with my team who is rooting for you. And let's build your PostdocTransformation with this episode.
[00:01:05] Meet Dr. Belinda Di Bartolo
Eleonore:
Welcome dear PostdocTransformer. Today, I have someone from down under that is Dr. Belinda Di Bartolo, and I have found her for you because some of you have asked me about how do I do that with motherhood and science and everything. And I was like, well, you know, I cheated a little bit and Belinda's experience is far worse than mine. So, I'm not talking about myself, but instead I will let her do the talking about her experience being a mother in science.
Belinda has always been working with academics and STEM professionals to elevate their careers. She has founded also her own business BD STEMM Strategies based on her 20 years or more experience in research labs, leading people, scientists, but also having three kids. And you can find her story also in the blog article of mothers in science, and on Instagram and X, that I will link in the show notes. So, without further ado, welcome Dr. Belinda di Bartolo to the PostdocTransformation Show, this stage is yours.
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
Thank you, Eleonore. Thank you so much for having me. This is so lovely.
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
I am a mother of three children and I spent about 20 years in academia, before moving on into an industry role and then starting my own business. So, being a mother in science is difficult. Is a tough gig and it's a lot of hard work, but I'm really happy to be here and to talk about everything that's happened in my career.
Eleonore:
Perfect. And maybe just to give you sort of like a teaser into that. I see that the Corona crisis had been different for many people. Some of them were impacted more or less, and as a mom with three children, and one of them was a baby during the Corona crisis. I think that that really sheds a light into your ideal customers. And you said you have a business, so who are the people who benefit most from your services?
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
Yes, the coronavirus, COVID 19 really did change things up for me. It was the beginning of a revelation into what I really wanted and what I really needed in my career and in my life as a mom. I really started, in academia thinking that my job was number one and my kids had to just move around that and I had to just weave them into my career because I didn't work hard to stay at home and give up everything I'd worked so hard for.
I went back to work, very quickly after having kids in Australia. That's very quickly for us is only after about six or seven months. I wasn't putting my career on hold just because I had children. I could do it all. Absolutely. I could, why not?
COVID really highlighted to me that what I wanted before wasn't what I wanted anymore. My youngest was three, so it wasn't quite a baby, but he was still in childcare. And I really decided during then that I was done, that what academia was providing me wasn't making me happy, that my family came first and I had to put them first.
And so I made those decisions and that worked out really well for me. My ideal clients who are mostly academics and are mostly women in STEM and some, not all mums, but most, and a lot of these women are looking to know how to elevate their career.
Not all of them are looking to transition out of academia, although About 50 percent of my clientele are because they'd had similar revelations and they really connected with my story that I decided was time to speak about after COVID and let people know that that's why I was leaving, that there were multiple reasons.
And I was very tired of it being a hush hush problem that nobody wanted to talk about. So, it was time to be honest, and one of the things about me is that I'm very honest, and very blunt. I've been called too blunt, too honest, on many of an occasion. But I actually think that hiding things and being secretive about the struggles Academics and that mum's go through actually does everyone a disservice.
So, my clients are very much academics that are looking to make a change, whether it be in their academic careers or whether or not they're looking to transition out of their academic careers.
[00:05:53] Career Transition Insights
Eleonore:
Thank you so much, Belinda, I really embrace your openness because I also think we need to be direct. I cannot tackle a problem that no one talks about or no one wants to see. So we need to talk about the problem and the problem is different for women, for mothers. And maybe it's also intersectional. So,if you don't have many relatable role models that have gone through that the same way and can share their experience, that really is making a huge difference.
And It makes it hard for us to, to find our ways. So, I love that you are now providing career guidance for those who seek that. And what kind of problems do they have typically? what are the triggers that they experience and then solve with you?
Dr. Belina di Bartolo: Yeah, a lot of academics are feeling, Unloved, overworked, stressed, and unhappy, or they're really just looking for more. I think a lot of scientists forget, especially when they're climbing a career ladder, why they were doing this job in the first place.
A lot of people get into science because they love the science. They want to get in the lab and they want to do the research. But as we're encouraged to apply for promotions and to write grants and to lead teams, we're suddenly sitting at the computer and we're not doing science anymore.
And it's a transition that a lot of people just go with and it's fine. A lot of people are happy with it, but there are a lot of conversations I've been having with many people who missed the lab and who no longer want to be on this track, of climbing an academic ladder. So I think that there's this trap of no longer doing the job that they love.
I don't know if there's a solution to that problem, to be honest, but those wanting to stay in academia need to adjust their mindset a little bit and start treating their career like it's a business. And they need to build their personal brand. That is something that I have been talking a lot about with academics who wish to remain in academia and who are just looking for a way to elevate their careers.
Those wanting to leave academia or transition into a different, career, role. They need to understand that they have so much to offer. This is the biggest problem I have with these clients is that they come and they say, I want to leave academia, or I want to move into industry, or I want to do something else, but I don't know if I have the right skills.
I can't do all the lists on the job description. And my job, and what I'm enjoying doing, is showing academics specifically how much they have to offer because their skill set is vast. And it's so amazing how we don't realize it as academics, how much we take for granted. the skills that we amass in academia is incredible.
We can do so much. And that's what I'm really enjoying doing with my clients now is showing them how valued they can be in a world outside of academia.
Eleonore: Oh, that's where our mission really is overlapping because I really think that the research experience that we have gained in the lab at the bench and whatever, but also supervising students when you're still a student just one degree ahead of the other, sometimes it's just one semester ahead. And sometimes I don't even know how I do my own experiments. And now I should supervise them to do their own experiments. So it's learning by doing, and teaching is a whole new avenue as well. And especially when we're talking about Corona, and then the hybrid lecturing, the online lecturing and everything. So being an on screen personality is also different to being in the lecture hall
Eleonore:
So, you were saying something about, Personal brand, a couple of minutes ago. What is a personal brand for someone who hasn't heard of that?
Because my clients also say I don't want to sell myself into something like that. I am a high performer that speaks for itself, right? So I know it doesn't, but that's where the personal brand is important. I want you to answer that question.
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
Absolutely. And personal brand is such a dirty, dirty phrase for academics. They really drink when they hear it. They don't want a bar of it. That's not why we got into academia. We didn't come into academia to sell ourselves. How dare you propose that we should be doing that?
It's not about selling yourself. Building a personal brand is really about telling the world how awesome your research is. It doesn't have to be about you if you don't want it to be. It can be just about your research. But academics fall into this trap of what you said before, believing that our work should speak for itself.
It doesn't anymore. Not in this world, not in this landscape. It's changing so quickly. And academics and STEM professionals need to get on board. Building a really strong personal brand is essential now for standing out and making a lasting impact, even if you're still in academia, because it makes a lasting impact in grant writing.
And grants, grantee funding bodies are going to look at your grant and say, actually, look at this person. They are making an impact in this area. And so, therefore, their research should be funded at a higher level than potentially someone else who isn't building a personal brand.
While I understand that it is an unwelcome phrase in academia, I think we need to empower people in enhancing their own profile, whether it be as the researcher, , or whether it be just the research, or a combination of the two. I think that's incredibly important, and I think that's the best way that academics can start leveraging their skills.
To become known, to become better, to just become, a force to be reckoned with in the academic world and not get lost in the sea that is so many academics. This is the biggest problem. There are more people doing science than there is funding to fund the science. So if you can stand out, then you should, and you should try.
Eleonore:
Yes, this is absolutely important. And I even teach my own bachelor and master's students that they already have to stand out because we are 30 people in the class, and all of you graduate with the same degree. maybe you have a minor and maybe have a major and maybe you have a different work, experience or whatever, you have some internships, but how can you Propel yourself into a career based on your interests, because they may differ in what you want to contribute as someone who is new in the workforce, So, when we're talking about your personal brand and how you can leverage that as a scientist already, Where do you think is a personal brand even more important while you are transitioning into industries? if you build a personal brand based on your science, not so much on your personality, because that is more closely to what we are, socialized, which I understand as you do. Do you think that once we decide that we want to go into industry, then we have to change your personal brand or to add on an extra layer?
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
Eleonore, it's a good point. And yes, I do think so. I think you really need to up the level of personal branding if you choose to make the transition out because your next employer, your next supervisor, whoever it is, they are employing you and they are not employing your research. So by making sure that you are well known for whatever research you are doing, That is part of your personal brand and it does need to come out.
And a lot of the clients I, take on don't have a LinkedIn profile or they have a LinkedIn profile and they've done nothing with it. And, LinkedIn is now becoming the most powerful tool when it comes to hiring because that's the online CV now. And it's interesting I signed up for LinkedIn in 2014. And just like every other academic did nothing with it. And I was told at the time, why would you need a LinkedIn profile? Academics don't need to be on LinkedIn. It's only for business people. And back then, potentially that was true. Now, more and more academics are coming on onto LinkedIn. And I think it's really important that they understand that it's a CV you have to cultivate on an ongoing basis.
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
It's not just dump your CV on there and that's it. It is interact, engage, and I know it's a lot of work and I know academics are busy and it is hard. A lot of them say, but I have nothing to say. Okay, then say nothing, comment on someone's posts, share a post, be active, be engaged, because if you are just showing up a little bit at a time.
You will then discover that you do have a voice and you do have something to say. And you might just very well be brave enough to say it.
Eleonore:
I love it. And I actually just want to undermine that. So I'm teaching my own bachelor and master students, how to use LinkedIn. So within the lectures, I reserve a three hour spot to say, you know, I can teach you my lecture, the script, and whatever, but more important than the grades is your ability to promote yourself.
And if you can't do this, you need to learn that. And I'm well aware that most of the professors, the faculty don't use LinkedIn the way they should do because they think they are scientists just like you and I just reiterated. But the thing is, I actually recorded a session or an episode on that, why scientists should also be active on social media. And I really do think that even as a professor who doesn't want to leap into business, it's your job to enable your students the best ways into industries. And even if it's not your path, you should be not the gatekeeper. You should open up doors for them. And that means that I have to also be on LinkedIn.
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Eleonore:
As a business owner, I have different reasons to be on LinkedIn, obviously, because I've always been in LinkedIn. IT in industries. But the thing is that for my colleagues, I'm telling you, you are doing yourself and your students a disservice. So even if you're not yet leaping as a scientist, build your own personal brand and do that with Belinda. All right. Is there any free thing that you help them with that you want to share here?
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
I offer a free 20 minute session with essential clients, they can come and talk to me about a number of things. I'm happy to help them and provide them advice and guidance.
They don't have to sign up with me for any particular course or coaching exercise. a lot of them just want to be heard. I find they want to talk to someone who's actually put themselves out there and told their story and is talking about pain points that exist in academia and they're happy that someone said that.
And so they're happy to just sign up and say, I really want to just talk to you about My next step, would you help me? And so I'm very happy to have that chat with people. I'm happy to provide advice and guidance and, you know, let them know that I'm available if they want to sign up with me and we can dive further into all the things that they need.
Or, I would point them in the direction of someone who else, someone else who can help them, because it's not just about me gaining clients. It's about me helping, you know, academics who need it, because I feel like if people were more honest, maybe about all of these things when I was going through academia, then maybe I might've had revelation a little bit earlier, or I might not have felt so unhappy for so long, I might've recognized how unhappy I was.
And so I will have workshops coming soon in the second half of this year in which, PhD students and early career scientists can sign up to because I also recognize that, you know, that stage of a career, they're not looking for a career coach, right?
They're looking for just guidance. So I will have those coming out in the second half of this year. But ultimately, yes, I just like to talk to people and help them.
Eleonore:
Okay, cool. And then we will also make sure that we will link to Belinda DiBartolo's website that is www.bdstemmstrategies.com, all in one word. And you can click on it on the show notes.
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What questions should a PhD or postdoc ask regarding juggling career and family?
Eleonore:
All right. So, before you can have a personal brand and before you can voice that out and, you know, make that nice and everything and put that all at all places, you have to be sure what you want for your life. 20 years into research, and then understanding that it's not what you want, that is a long time. And you said you have the idea of wasting that. I'm not sure whether that was a waste, but 20 years is a, is a long time. So what are the questions that someone, a PhD student, a postdoc should ask right now?
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
It's a good question. I also don't think it was a waste. I think it got me to where I am now. And I'm grateful for everything that I learned and experienced because It led me to here. I think if you're a PhD student or an early career scientist and you're going through the motions right now, I think it's hard looking back retrospectively, but I think you should ask yourself if you're willing to climb a ladder, if you're willing to be the professor if you are willing to go through all the motions. And I think you need to understand what they are. And I think it's a hard question to ask themselves because my issue with that is that nobody teaches a PhD student what an academic career looks like.
During your PhD, you are given a project and you are told to go and do it. And there is no education. I was having this conversation with someone recently about how this education about what an academic career looks like and how you should be treating your academic career like it is a business. This needs to happen even as an undergrad.
Undergrads need to be taught how to navigate their career like it's a business. The second question I would encourage them to ask is, if you are choosing to have a family, can you juggle it? I hate the word work life balance. I hate the phrase because it isn't a balance, it's a juggle. And I speak about my juggle when people ask me, is that it's deciding which balls are made of glass and which balls are made of rubber. So which ones are you willing to drop because they will bounce and which ones if you drop they will shatter and usually of all should always be the glass balls are your family.
So, ask yourself the question because I didn't and I should have. I put off my family because I was doing my PhD because I was building a career. I didn't need to have kids yet. Now looking back I kind of wish I did have kids while I was earlier on in my career, because I think it might've been easier.
But then again, it might've been harder. I have no idea. Ask yourself the question. Be brave and ask it. I know it goes against all fibers of our being to say that we should have to do this, but I think you should ask the question. The last question I think a PhD student should ask is if they really enjoy the science.
A lot of people do a PhD because they think they have to do a PhD because they think it's a natural progression. And this comes back to my point before in that there's no education at the bachelor's level that teaches them, you know what, you can actually go and get a career in an industry and still do science.
You don't have to do a PhD. When saying that, PhD does help. A lot of industries and biotechs very much like a PhD, but you don't have to. You can get your experience in industry. Nothing says that you can't. So, you need to be able to ask yourself that, right?
Are you willing to come down and start again and retrain, or are you not? Do you like the science, or are you doing a PhD because you're told that you should do a PhD to get further ahead?
Eleonore:
These questions are really deep questions. And I think that everyone should ask them themselves. And especially the one with a juggling career. I hate to say it, but most men don't even need to think about it. But we have to, if we are The person who can become pregnant because having kids starts already with pregnancy and then it never stops. So, it impacts us differently. And I also teach bio-psychology because I'm a PhD in neuro. And in that situation I am very privileged to talk with male and female students about hormones. And also I mentioned very openly that you can also do social freezing, so freezing the eggs to postpone the careers.
Because I often see women being career ambitious and postponers up until the age that they cannot get any children anymore because they have postponed so much. So instead, you should already think at a bachelor level, you know, the career that I want to have, is it even reconcilable with having kids? Because Claudia Goldin she got the Nobel Prize, she said there are greedy jobs. If you have a greedy job, or if you are looking for a greedy career, then you will have to find someone who takes care for the kids. And it doesn't have to be the mom. It can be the father.
But you have to understand what are the opportunity costs of your career choice. And the glass and the rubber ball image that you just painted, they are crystal clear in the sense that whatever the glass ball is, it will break. Either it's the career or it's the kids.
I don't know what you wanna choose, but it's your choice.
So when you look back at the things that you have experienced, what is an advice that you can share with a PostdocTransformer who wants to leap into business?
[00:31:48] Networking and Career Advice
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
My advice is to be honest with yourself and to talk to people. Build your network. I know people don't like networking and they hate the word networking, but it doesn't have to be the word that you don't like. It can just be talking to people. The more people you talk to, the more you learn. Find out things about different careers and different paths that people have taken. That is something that I learned when I made my transition, I talked to so many people to find out what was out there and what I needed to know and what people thought and their opinions Be honest, talk to people and be brave enough to make decisions that might be outside the norm. The biggest thing that helped me when I left academia was that I joined Mothers in Science. I volunteered as one of their social media people. when I left the academia, I didn't know what to do with myself.
I was very lost and that was advertised. And I thought, I'm a mom in science and I resonate with a lot of the journeys and a lot of what I saw, them posting. So I've been with them since November, 2021. And, the skills I have learned by just being on board with their team, the people I have met from all over the world and their stories just guide you along the way. So that is my advice to people. Just be open to everybody's journeys. Be open to talking to people and be brave enough to talk to people, but be brave enough to make a decision if you are unhappy.
Life is way too short to spend it being unhappy.
[00:33:30] Mothers in Science
Eleonore:
That was a beautiful transition to mothers in science. That is a perfect leeway to talk a little bit more about mothers in science. How is it possible to work with them or to meet other people?
Dr. Belina di Bartolo:
So, I wish we could meet up, but we are based everywhere. So, our founder is in France, in Paris, and there are people from, all over the world. We are global. I'm the only one from Australia. there's someone from New Zealand. There's people in the US, in Canada, in Europe, Africa, everywhere.
It's amazing and it's such a wonderful community. We're there to support mothers in science and empower women in STEM and provide, forums for people for. Dr. Eleonore Soei Winkels, Podbean, ActiveCampaign, Descript, Squadcast, TypeForm, You can get from this community, come along to any of the scimon chats that we put on.
The biggest one is share your journey. So, yeah, I encourage you if you're a mum in science to join as a member, sign up just to the newsletter, so that you're exposed to what, mothers in science have to offer.
Eleonore:
That's great that you also have role models from the BIPOC community and all of them have in common that they are mothers in science. As I said that it's sometimes easier when you come from a country where you have a role model system in the sense that you have a long maternity leave and then you can come back to work being a little bit less exhausted than after eight weeks after giving birth, which is the case in some countries. The first time I was working in the US I was like, wow, so many women work and they have kids. And I was like, wow, they're strong. And then I found out that they have to, and I was like, oh, okay. So I'm very, I'm very privileged to live in Germany. where you have a longer maternity leave than that. I did not choose one because I thought that I can do it all, but that's a different story. That's stupid on my side. But you know, things change and you have to sort of like understand that there is a cost to everything. And learning from other women, may help you to not do the mistakes for yourself.
And that's why I'm also encouraging all the women who are not yet mothers to network with those who are so that you know what's coming ahead so that you can make an informed decision because it really is something Usually people don't talk about that. Men do not talk about that because they are not even aware that there are problems.
And women, sometimes, not you and I, but sometimes we are ashamed that we chose wrong. And think that we have to just roll with that. But the thing is that there are systemic hurdles we can only overcome if we Advocate for ourselves, and that means that you know what is possible and at what cost. And that's why Mothers in Science is a great opportunity to learn how it can be and will be. And so that you will find the right role models, because I really do think being underrepresented, underprivileged, and underserved means that you have to find the different ways. Mothers in science is a great way to learn.
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Leveraging Podcasting for Internal Communication
Eleonore:
Hey, you're still here and you are a future HR or talent management leader. Well, I want to talk to you about a powerful tool that can transform the way organizations communicate internally. How about creating a podcast like this one in today's fast paced business world? Effective communication is the cornerstone of success, so how can you engage your employees, convey your company's culture and share knowledge in a dynamic, authentic, and accessible way?
Well, to me, the answer lies in podcasting, obviously. So picture this, a podcast tailor made for your organization, where you and your real employees and leaders share and updates in a conversational, engaging format. It's like having your own radio show, but with a corporate twist, absolutely branded.
Now, why should you consider this as a future HR and talent management professional? Well, podcasts are accessible, so your employees can tune in during their daily commute while multitasking off screen or walking, and it's flexible and it can be easily repurposed in different formats and languages.You know what I'm talking about, right?
So, it actually humanizes your organization and podcasts allow you to bring a company's culture to life. You can interview leaders, team members, and highlight what makes your workplace unique and connect with those team members who are far away or on parental leave when they are most receptive for your internal communication.
And in the era of AI generated communications, a podcast with your business leaders in real life is a real human way to reach your employees. You can inform your people every day, everywhere, on demand, and not just during the typical onboarding and promotion seasons.
Lastly, it's a platform for continuous learning, whether it's training materials, leadership insights, or industry trends. Podcasts keep your team informed and inspired. So as you prepare to step into the world of HR, talent management and leadership, consider the impact you can make by introducing a corporate podcast.
It's a game changer for internal communications and aligns perfectly with a modern work environment. So, are you ready to inform with a human touch create a podcast with me. I'm Eleonore Soei-Winkels, the host of the PostdocTransformation Show. Do you need inspiration? Well, you can get a list of free 30 sample episode titles to be customized for your company.
Thank you for reading our full transcript of this episode.
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