PostdocTransformation show for scienctists leaping into business
Get to know companies which hire people with a doctor title
Episode 0050 Shownotes
In this episode of the Postdoc Transformation Show, our guest Aline Julienne Salambéré, a management trainer and HR consultant, opens up on her journey towards obtaining a PhD and why she decided to forgo the dissertation. Aline shares her experiences working with companies in Canada and Africa, offering insights into the cultural perceptions of PhDs in business and the importance of practical skills over academic titles. The episode provides valuable advice for scientists considering a career in business, emphasizing the significance of research grants, financial readiness, and effective time management during a PhD program.
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About our PostdocTransformation show
Invest in your PostdocTransformation. Welcome to the seasonal show for scientists leaping into business. In every sponsored episode, we are happy to recommend employers of choice for you. Make sure to check your readiness to leap out of science with us for free, as linked in the show notes. For your career transition, we offer customized career transition e-courses and memberships, also at graduate schools all over the world.
Maybe yours too. And if your university isn't yet our customer, enroll in your free email course for career transition made simple as linked in the show notes. I'm your host, Professor Dr. Eleonore Soei Winkels, with my team who is rooting for you. And let's build your PostdocTransformation with this episode.
Meet Our Guest: Aline Julienne Salambéré
Eleonore:
Today, I'm so pleased to have a guest I met on TikTok. And she impressed me because she is openly sharing that, you know, a PhD is not needed to be successful at management. So, Today, I'll be welcoming Aline Julienne Salambéré, and Aline is a manager, Aline is a management trainer, and she, sorry. Aline is a management trainer and she consults companies on HR strategies, planning, and public policy. In Montreal, Canada. Sorry. And she's been working with companies in Canada, in Africa as well. So Burkina Faso, Senegal, Guinea, Conakry, Mali, and Togo. I want to share with you her views on how valuable or not a PhD is in [00:02:00] business. So welcome to the show, Aline.
Aline Salambéré:
Thank you so much Eleonore for having me. I'm very delighted to be here and to share with you and your viewers and listeners.
Aline's Journey to a PhD
Eleonore:
So why did you pursue a PhD? And when did you, or how did you notice that maybe everything but the dissertation is a good way for you?
Aline Salambéré:
Actually, that's a good question. If you want, we're gonna go back maybe a few decades. When my mother was pregnant with me, she was going to university. So, I think that's where I got the bug of learning. And I love to learn and I love school. I have always been very different that way because other kids during the summer, they just want the summer to never end.
And me, I was like, oh, I want to go back to school. This has been too long. I want to go back to school. So I absolutely love school. I love to learn. And that's what led me to a PhD [00:03:00] because you know, you're gonna, there's so much you can do after your master's degree. So I said, okay, let's go for a PhD.
I had a subject that I loved, that I wanted to know more on, and so I wanted to research that.
Challenges and Realizations During the PhD
Aline Salambéré:
So that's how I got into the PhD program, and I learned a lot about the PhD program once I was in it. I learned that it was not only about being smart and being book smart. It was about being consistent, being disciplined, having a huge support system, and being able to pay for your tuition fees, because it is not free, and you have to work a lot.
So, it was a balance. I learned a lot about balancing my life, different aspects of my life, and having a support system and everything. So that's how it went for me during the PhD, process. And the reason why I didn't do the dissertation was more, it was not really a [00:04:00] choice.
I had personal issues at that time that was a priority for me. So I did that and I said, you know what? Do I really need the dissertation? I learned the most. I know how to add to how to research. I know not everything that I need to know, but I know a lot about the field.
So do I really need the degree? So, I prioritized my personal issues versus pursuing the dissertation to have the PhD title.
Eleonore:
That was an honest assessment on the value of gaining skills during your PhD, but also weighing the, you know, caveats, the opportunities that come with a PhD or not. And now, as you were talking about, and now, as you were talking about your past decision to not obtain the full PhD, but instead to finish everything and then without the dissertation, you went [00:06:00] out.
Did you fear that the PhD would have been beneficial in your management career? Or do you think that in hindsight, that was the best decision that you could do? Because you don't really have, you know, any bad consequences out of that. So, what is your experience?
Cultural Differences in the Value of a PhD
Aline Salambéré:
That's a great question because I would say there are two faces in, in having or not having the PhD diploma. When I was in the PhD program, I had an award for excellence.
But at the end, I can see that all that doesn't really matter when you enter your career and when you're trying to be a consultant and everything. It doesn't matter. At the time when I got the award, I felt like, all the doors was going to open before me because you know, I have an excellence award, but [00:07:00] no, it doesn't work that way.
Right now, what I learned was, um, that in Africa, I'm going to say in Africa and also maybe in French speaking European countries, the title is very important. I'm actually considering, going back to completing my dissertation. Just for that. Because yes, I'm a consultant and it works and I have beautiful opportunities and it's all right, but I can see and I can feel that people think that the title is very important.
It even looks more important that your knowledge or your skills. So, yeah, that's a culture. I think it's really, it's really a French speaking mindset. In North America, it's about skills.In my post grad classroom with master degree students. I've had some people that have maybe a high school diploma, but they have maybe 10, 15 [00:08:00] years of very relevant experience. It's a work experience that helped them develop a lot of valuable skills, so it compensates for them not having maybe another degree, but you cannot see that in the French system. There is no way you're going to go from high school to a master's degree. No way. You can, you can work for 25 years, have all the experience you want, you will not be able, maybe it has changed. I'm talking about the French system that I've known for maybe five, 10 years ago. Maybe there are some changes, but I'm not sure that you can do that today as you can do it in the Canadian or the US system.
Eleonore:
I hope that times will change, acknowledging that it is not yet in many countries, not just French speaking, but also in other countries. I also teach intercultural psychology, so, I understand that there are some [00:09:00] differences.
The future of work won't look at the degree because it really is more about the skills that you can contribute to bring to the table to move the business needle of the company and to reach its goals, right? So, it shouldn't be depending on the degree of the individual, but instead it should be the team effort that is fueled by the individual's talents and skills towards the company goal, right?
Tips for Aspiring PhD Students
Eleonore:
Okay, so next question that I have for you is: for the decision making to pursue the PhD and to continue the PhD to not drop out, in hindsight, what are your most relevant decision factors?
Aline Salambéré:
Yes. So, I'm gonna share with you what I wish someone had told me. When I, when I started, when I started, uh, the PhD program, I wish someone had told me that I had to be, uh, financially ready. That was the first thing. Because I thought, school is school. I have a master's degree. I have a bachelor's degree.
I know how it works. No, PhD is [00:12:00] not school. It's not regular school. It's special. So it's going to take a lot of your time. So you have to be prepared for that. Um, I wish, I also wish someone had told me, um, that you have to understand, um, the whole world of Uh, res research grants because you have research grants, you have, you have a whole, uh, very administrative, very boring processes that you have to know so you can apply for different, uh, all on grants and also being heard.
So, you have to go to conferences and, uh, and participate in panels and stuff like that. And you also have to publish. Publish or perish. I learned that, uh, two years into my PhD program, the publish or perish. So I did, I published only when I learned that. Of course, I got into the game, the publishing game, but, you know, I was two years late.
So, I wish someone had told me that, okay, get, get ready financially in terms of your time. [00:13:00] Also know how, how to play the game because it is a game, you know, it's not only a knowledge process, it's not all pure and you know, when we're learning, we're all together and we're reading, we're learning, we're sharing.
No, that's not all it is. It is a game. You have to know the rules of the game. And one of the rules is publish or perish. One of the rules is to be in conferences and be heard. Also, um, make sure that you pick the right professor. That's key. That is really key. You have to work with someone that is interested in in your research subject.
Very important because if they're not interested, you're not going to get published. You're not going to, they have a limit. It's not even because they are not nice or they don't like you. It's because they also, as professors, have to publish, have to do a certain number of things. So they're not going to publish, take time to work on what you're going to publish if it's not in their interest.
It's, you know, it's just time [00:14:00] management and resources management is nothing, uh, nothing mean or anything like that. So make sure that your research subject or interest aligns with your professor's research interest also. Very important. And make sure that you have an agreement with your professor about how you're going to work, the timelines, how the feedback is going to work.
And maybe the last thing, but not the least, know yourself. You have to know yourself. If you know that you, maybe like me, are neurodivergent. You have to tell that to your professor. You have to take that into consideration when you are planning things, because you are not going to work the same way as everybody else.
There are positive aspects of being neurodivergent, I learned maybe two or three times fast, faster than anyone else, but I can go maybe five days knowing [00:15:00] that there is a deadline and not doing anything. What I need to do, I'll do it one day before. And, uh, you have to know yourself really is very important.
So that's, maybe that's the things that I wish someone had told me when I started.
Eleonore:
Should I call it? Um, From your, okay, Aline, I'm so grateful to have you here, because I know that you have with your vast management experience, a unique voice, because you are probably someone who has been working with many people also with scientists leaping into business.
Business Mindset vs. Scientist Mindset
Eleonore:
So are there differences in the business mindset versus a scientist mindset?
Can you share some tips for the new scientists leaping into business?
Aline Salambéré:
Actually. And I know what I noticed with only business mindsets is that people are very focused on results, on practices. They don't get the background. They don't get the how, the [00:16:00] why, and everything behind that. They don't get that there is a whole world of research that is there to help them do what they do.
They think that if you have not been in business for a long time. If you are not on the field, then you don't really get it. They don't understand that there are a lot of companies that have been subject to researches in management, so we have the science. They don't even get, maybe that there is a science of management actually.
They think it's more of an art of a or a practice, but not really a science. So that's very interesting because when I work with people that, take the leap from science to management, it's easier because we are gonna do this thing that scientists do. We're gonna take, um, the situation from [00:17:00] different perspectives.
Just that is something that the other ones tend not to do. They don't, they think that there is one best way. And this is how I view it, and the employee, is not working, and if he's not performing, it's because he's not coming at the right hours, because he doesn't respect us, and that's that.
So when you're trying to explain to them that, you know what, there is something, uh, called the cycle, the, um, the, I'm trying to translate this, from the Contrapsychologique de Travail. Yeah. So when you try to tell them that, you know what, there's a scientific concept.
And maybe that's why something is off with that employee. Maybe their psychological work contract is, is not what they expected. And, Science shows that it tends to, to be, um, to make them less motivated at work and, or maybe, you know, the one that is coming early and going late, going back late is not maybe your best employee because you know what, there is something called presentism and it means that they are [00:18:00] there physically, they are in front of the computer, but they're not working.
So, you're trying to explain those things. And they're more difficult to convince because they think, oh, these are theories and, and, it's not real world. In the real world, there are good employees and bad employees. That's it. So when you work with, uh, someone that meant the leap from science to management, it's a, it's a, it's a joy to, to, to work with them because we can share a lot and, and we, we complete each other.
And so I'm there to add value as a consultant. I'm there to add value to what they do, but they actually add value to what I do too. So that's the best. Uh, it's rare. I didn't meet a lot of them, but it's really the best clients I would say that are the best I would, I love to work with.
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Aline, the management trainer
in Canada & Africa
Eleonore:
Scientists seem to have a superpower that they can take from their scientific background and to be open minded and to view a degree or to view a problem from multiple degrees and not just yes or no, but instead it's a gradual transition, maybe a transformation that needs to be surpassed with multiple tools, and not just one [00:21:00] tool, the one that has always been working.
Maybe it's not the best, but it's the only one. That was really great. Also, for my own Bachelor and Master's students in Industrial and Occupational Psychology. Now, I was also talking about the psychological contract with them. So, yes, thank you for that.
All right. The next question is really to switch gears because you have also alluded to that, the clients that you have. So you are a trainer for management. You are a consultant. So who is your ideal customer? Is it African companies or is it in Canada or is it companies expanding both vice versa?
Aline Salambéré: Um, thank you for that question. So who I work, I work with pretty much all sizes of companies. As long as they are preoccupied by their, uh, people management, their, their HR management. That's really the key to, to being someone, uh, that I can add value to at work. So, uh, [00:22:00] companies in Canada, companies in Africa, West Africa, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast, et cetera.
So, um, that's mainly where I work is Canada and in Africa, but the world is, uh, the world is my work field.
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Eleonore:
And I must admit that I don't understand French that much, but some of your videos, at least the captions, I translated it to English, so that I can understand. And it's like, yes, I want to talk to Aline because she shares some important experience that I think that underprivileged people can only share. And also only relate if they have undercome that, uh, if they have also overcome those challenges. And for me, you are a role model that I want to share in my PostdocTransformation Show. So thank you for being my guest on the PostdocTransformation Show, Aline.
Aline Salambéré:
Thank you. Thank you, Eleonore. Because, uh, likewise, I have been following you on TikTok, on LinkedIn and I was like, that woman is doing something very important because she's showing that what I'm doing is [00:23:00] not crazy going from science, trying to say science. And management can go hand to hand. And it works.
And now there is that woman, she's in Germany, she's a professor and she does it and she's doing things that are funny. She doesn't take herself too seriously. So I was like, wow, okay. That's how I was very, very happy and very honored. That you thought that I could add something to your podcast.
Thank you.
Eleonore:
I don't find a lot of women who have the same values. And then it's not about skin tone. It's not about geographies, but it's about the values that we share and you share your voice as
Aline Salambéré:
Aline, your management trainer.
Exactly.
Eleonore:
All your resources in the show notes and also your LinkedIn page are linked so that everyone can find you and your services for your training and consulting in Canada and also Africa.
Aline Salambéré:
Thank you very much. This was [00:25:00] really fun to do. And, uh, I really hope that you, you, you, you have a lot of echo with your podcast and what you do, because it's really important for, for us women. It's very important to know that we don't have to, to, um, we don't have to mimic men, men, uh, um, behaviors. to, to be able to success.
We can, uh, fully be the woman we wanna be, the woman as we, as we picture a woman to be. We have different definitions of being a woman, and we can be all of that and be a scientist and funny and smart and, and, and, and, and in the, not in the, in the science. Uh, world per se. We can take the science out of the science world and do whatever we want with it.
And I think that's, that's, that's how we should really see the science. It's a tool. We do whatever we want with it.
Season 4 Wrap-Up and Future Plans
Dear PostdocTransformer, we are ending Season 4 on a high note with Aline Salambéré contemplating to finish her dissertation with the wisdom [00:26:00] she knows today. It's a wrap with 50 full episodes under our belt.
On behalf of my team, I want to thank you for listening to the Postdoc Transformation Show for scientists leaping into business.
By team, I mean my two students who are interns and rotating since we started the show on January 2023. Three, and a couple of super fans who really support me behind the scenes, setting up the show notes, setting up the questionnaires for the guests, et cetera. We all really had a huge learning curve.
My show really is my legacy as a professor for Industrial and Occupational Psychology. During the Corona crisis, I saw my Bachelor and Master students suffering under toxic and virtually incapable leaders. This cannot be, that doesn't have to be. I wanted to walk my talk to showcase that verbal encouragement can go a long way, even if it's just on Social Media. I wanted to show that [00:27:00] leading and inspiring people via digital means is possible. Beyond the classroom. I can teach you, wherever and whenever, just as long as you are ready.
Our inspiring guests
And I want to showcase relatable role models for my underrepresented and underprivileged and underserved community, because they deserve it. Just because I don't look like you, that doesn't mean that You need to be deprived. I wanted to invite people you should see as your role models. If you have been a guest of our show, please know that your voice is changing lives evergreen.
And I'm so proud that we have been able to interview so many women from so many countries all over the From so many disciplines at different career stages,
So, drumroll, in the order of appearance:
We had Dr. Carlotta A. Berry from the U. S. with two episodes. One was Mentoring Your Way [00:28:00] and the second one was strategies for underrepresented Ph. D. students.
Then we had Dr. Tina Ruseva from Germany with her episode on Big Heart Ventures for Doctors.
And then we had Dr. Emily Rosenthal from the U. S. again, transitioning from research into business.
Then we had Dr. Kristin Eichhorn from Germany, being more than Ich bin Hannah.
Then we had from the UK, Dr. Holly Prescott, Navigating the Struggles of Postdoc Employability.
Then we had headhunter, Dr. Sonja Uhland, from Germany with, from liberal arts to a corporate career in headhunting.
Then we have Dr. Ana de Almeida Kumlien from Brazil now in Spain and Portugal on the Marie Curie Postdoc Fellowship.
Then we have Dr. Rima Dey from India with building resilience in a recession.
We had Dr. Cindy Leighton from the U. S. and she talked about her [00:29:00] experience from the bench to biotech program management.
We had Beth Horsley from the UK, a headhunter secrets for Researchers Transitioning Into Industry, and then again, Dr.
Kristin Eichhorn, and now with Dr. Amrei Bahr from Germany, about Democracy in German Academia.
Then we go to Sweden with Dr. Tina Persson, and she's talking about developing adaptability, the journey to leadership.
And then we had our friends from from WiseCast, a podcast for women in science and education with Dr. Richa Chandra and Dr. Amber Miller. And we talked about picture a Scientist, Part 2, Part 1 is in their podcast, WiseCast.
And then we had Candice Zarrei from PharmaUni in Germany, and she talked about the future work in pharma from an HR and upskilling perspective.
We had Dr. Irène Kilubi from Germany, and she talked about you are more [00:30:00] than just a degree.
We have Dr. Christine Solf from Germany, and she shared her experience about leaping from sociology research to the consulting jungle.
Then we had Pamela Maruschke from Germany, and she talked about mixing business and technology with a human touch.
We had Dr. Belinda di Bartolo from Australia, and she shared about her juggling family and career as a mother in science.
Then we had Christina Bösenberg in Germany with building a bright consulting career in times of AI.
And then I had my friend Noma Mguni from the UK on PhD hard talk and disseminating your research to the world.
I have already recorded 12 episodes with inspiring interviews and solos for Season 5, which starts on September the 5th, and I cannot wait to edit them over the summer with my team. If you want to shape our show [00:31:00] and invite future guests or suggest career transition questions, please join our Inner Circle newsletter, which I will also link in the show notes because we want to ramp up our season five live shows to answer your questions regarding our 50 episodes and maybe even a small live in person event in Dusseldorf, Germany.
So let us know, join our Inner Circle, so that we can build our PostdocTransformation together.
Outlook to our new podcast: #CreatingReorganized
As a PhD in neuroscience, as a psychologist, I'm an advocate for inclusion, and of course providing a full transcripts and live captions on podcast players, et cetera, is a given.
This is the leeway to my technical point of view. I want to thank my software partners, ActiveCampaign, Descript, Squadcast, TypeForm, Later, and, of course, Podbean, because I'm a techie at heart, and capitalizing on their AI ingested features [00:32:00] is really a joy for me. And now I want to unveil something.
After having tested a new LinkedIn newsletter called CreatingReorganized, I want to share with you that we will create a second podcast, CreatingReorganized, showcasing our software partners features that help us create our PostdocTransformation Show.
So if you are an aspiring business owner, or you want to use a podcast to Disseminate your ideas, your science communication, or your business, services, products, or whatever. Then please also join and tune in to our new show coming in autumn because now we will be recording our sessions for that new podcast.
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Thank you for listening!
Eleonore:
I often joke, I'm a serial career transitioner and I'm ready to bet on myself again and also this time my joy with technology. Many of my transferable skills fall [00:33:00] strategically into place when I am podcasting. Remember, you can build your PostdocTransformation according to your vision of life.
With podcasting and advertising affiliate links, I was able to pick up my kids around 3 o'clock every day after school, since half a year. I'm building my PostdocTransformation family first. You probably heard me talking about this a couple of times, and I really mean it. I really mean business. This did not happen overnight and if you've been with this podcast, the PostdocTransformation Show, you have witnessed my own PostdocTransformation from being a solo podcaster to also an interviewer and a host, and I have managed everything on the tech side. I love it. Being able to inspire and to educate, to share inspiring voices when I'm caring for my children building my own PostdocTransformation according to my vision of [00:34:00] life.
I want to thank you, with your listenings and your support on social media, you support me as a working mom and a business owner. We will be back with Season 5 on September the 5th. So stay tuned for your own PostdocTransformation.
If you are a content creator, you can benefit, you can benefit from my IT strategy experience. You can use all my affiliate links as shared in the show notes. I can also consult you on the tech and also on your business strategy. It goes without saying as a former IT strategist, I really had a lot of fun to integrate all my tech behind the curtain. One of my strongest virtues that I'm still drawing on today is as an IT analyst, I was the one to train others to use the software of the day.
I host all my free and paid e-courses on my learning management platform of choice: Thinkific.
I built my PostdocTransformation as a digital business, and I chose ActiveCampaign to be the centerpiece of all my services like email cores, podcasts, newsletters, show notes, websites, sales page, merch shop, forms, whatever it is, as needed. As a former IT strategy consultant, I have high requirements on my tech stack, and ActiveCampaign is a must have recommendation.
I use it daily. If you want to create your own digital business with various lead markets and funnel options, DM or email me ActiveCampaign so I can share my experience and consult you. You can also use my affiliate links for perks launching your own digital business with ActiveCampaign.
Support us!
Have you found this episode so far helpful for yourself? Well, maybe you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Podbean, or wherever you get our show. And also share this episode with your PhD bestie because that would encourage us to help the underprivileged, underrepresented, and underserved early career scientists leaping into business.
This would also ensure that you don't miss a future episode. Also, our subscription and listening numbers are key for finding the right sponsors for our show so that we can help you for free. And now, back to the show.
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And even better, if you get us paid by your grad school, we will pay you 50 percent recurring sales commissions.
So, you will earn money with us as we help you and your PhD besties to [00:05:00] transition into business. We can build our PostdocTransformation together.
So, we are at the end of this episode, and I would love to have you, PostdocTransformers, to contribute to future seasons. We have a PostdocTransformation show newsletter where we inform about upcoming episodes, or we lay out the planning for the next seasons so that you are able to forecast who you want to ask as well as role models, or maybe you want to ask a couple of questions certain guest that is upcoming.
This PostdocTransformation show was brought to you by Prof. Dr. Eleonore Soei-Winkels
Leveraging Podcasting for Internal Communication
Eleonore:
Hey, you're still here and you are a future HR or talent management leader. Well, I want to talk to you about a powerful tool that can transform the way organizations communicate internally. How about creating a podcast like this one in today's fast paced business world? Effective communication is the cornerstone of success, so how can you engage your employees, convey your company's culture and share knowledge in a dynamic, authentic, and accessible way?
Well, to me, the answer lies in podcasting, obviously. So picture this, a podcast tailor made for your organization, where you and your real employees and leaders share and updates in a conversational, engaging format. It's like having your own radio show, but with a corporate twist, absolutely branded.
Now, why should you consider this as a future HR and talent management professional? Well, podcasts are accessible, so your employees can tune in during their daily commute while multitasking off screen or walking, and it's flexible and it can be easily repurposed in different formats and languages.You know what I'm talking about, right?
So, it actually humanizes your organization and podcasts allow you to bring a company's culture to life. You can interview leaders, team members, and highlight what makes your workplace unique and connect with those team members who are far away or on parental leave when they are most receptive for your internal communication.
And in the era of AI generated communications, a podcast with your business leaders in real life is a real human way to reach your employees. You can inform your people every day, everywhere, on demand, and not just during the typical onboarding and promotion seasons.
Lastly, it's a platform for continuous learning, whether it's training materials, leadership insights, or industry trends. Podcasts keep your team informed and inspired. So as you prepare to step into the world of HR, talent management and leadership, consider the impact you can make by introducing a corporate podcast.
It's a game changer for internal communications and aligns perfectly with a modern work environment. So, are you ready to inform with a human touch create a podcast with me. I'm Eleonore Soei-Winkels, the host of the PostdocTransformation Show. Do you need inspiration? Well, you can get a list of free 30 sample episode titles to be customized for your company.
Thank you for reading our full transcript of this episode.
For the PostdocTransformation show, we will interview industry experts, leaders in the corporate world, but also companies serving early career scientists leaping into business.
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All right, thanks for listening and I hope that you will watch our show and also listen to our show for the next episodes. And like I said, go back to the previous episodes. I think they have valuable insights for you.
We appreciate every one of you!
Until the next episode,
Cheers,
Eleonore & Team PostdocTransformation
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