PostdocTransformation show for scienctists leaping into business
Get to know companies which hire people with a doctor title
Episode 0052 Shownotes
In this episode of the PostdocTransformation Show, host Professor Dr. Eleonore Soei- Winkels introduces senior headhunter Daniel Knott from Page Executive in Germany, who shares his career management tips and insights into the executive search industry. Daniel discusses his role at Page Executive, the importance of networking, and offers advice for bachelor, master, and senior management leaders on career development. He emphasizes the significance of company culture, resilience, and maintaining a work-life balance, especially for those with families. The episode also highlights the value of diverse backgrounds and the impact of digitalization across various industries.
Subscribe to our weekly seasonal show on your favorite podcast platforms: Why? Postdoc scientists & PhD students / candidates will learn the basics for their career transition from research into business & industries AND will get to know a company that hires early career scientists!
About our PostdocTransformation show
Invest in your PostdocTransformation. Welcome to the seasonal show for scientists leaping into business. In every sponsored episode, we are happy to recommend employers of choice for you. Make sure to check your readiness to leap out of science with us for free, as linked in the show notes. For your career transition, we offer customized career transition e-courses and memberships, also at graduate schools all over the world.
Maybe yours too. And if your university isn't yet our customer, enroll in your free email course for career transition made simple as linked in the show notes. I'm your host, Professor Dr. Eleonore Soei Winkels, with my team who is rooting for you. And let's build your PostdocTransformation with this episode.
Announcement: Second upcoming podcast show #CreatingReorganized
[00:00:00] Thank you for listening to my PostdocTransformation Show. Maybe you want to leap out of science and start your own side business as a runway for your better future. Then you will benefit from my free business preparation quiz as linked in the show notes. If you want to organize your marketing and selling efforts, please also subscribe to my new video podcast show, Creating Reorganized.
[00:00:25] I share my tricks from creating this show, speak with business owners who run a podcast for their business, and learn from podcasting service providers about their tools boosting our businesses. My new video podcast show, CreatingReorganized, will also be a living example of applied industrial and occupational psychology for my students in real life.
[00:00:46] And now, let's get to this episode.
[00:01:51] Meet Daniel Knott: My Supportive Male Ally behind the scenes of the PostdocTransformation show
[00:01:51] Eleonore: Dear PostdocTransformer, you are going to hear someone who has been behind the scenes the most supportive male ally that think of.
[00:02:03] Daniel Knott: Yeah.
[00:02:04] Eleonore: I'm talking about someone who's been recommending me a lot of guests that you have already listened to in this PostdocTransformation Show.
[00:02:14] For example, Dr. Sonja Ulland and also Beth Horsley. And all three of them my new guest today are working for the page group. And to me as well, the page group changes lives.
[00:02:27] Why? Because Daniel Knott, our guest today, again, has brought so many people to my show and is still bringing people to my show. And also he is changing my students lives because he has invited us, my students and me, twice already to the office, to the Heimat, as he calls it. And this way, my bachelor master's students for industrial occupational psychology, were able to get some real time insights into how it's like to be working as a head hunter and how to recruit and staff people for companies that are seeking new and also seasoned talent.
[00:03:09] Daniel Knott's Career Management Tips
[00:03:09] Eleonore: And Daniel will be sharing a lot of career management tips because he's a senior headhunter at page executive. We will be talking about how he approaches networking, because how we met actually is also very unique. We were both attending FidAR, so that's Frauen in die Aufsichtsräte in Germany, last year in September, so only a couple of months ago. And I saw him, on stage talking about career management and the way he interacted and engaged with the women in the audience was so remarkable that I approached him directly to connect with him for my students. And then I was also talking about my PostdocTransformation Show, and then he immediately thought of connecting the dots and recommending a lot of people for my show. So there will be more to come from his recommendations, but today we'll be talking all about Daniel Knott's career management tips.
[00:04:15] So without further ado, welcome. The stage is yours, dear Daniel.
[00:04:21] Daniel Knott: Thank you very much, Ellie, for the very kind words and intro. And I'm super happy to join this podcast, and hopefully we can develop something great here.
[00:04:32] Eleonore: Absolutely. We have already developed something great. So this is for me, just the thank you for all your effort that you have already put into our collaboration. Okay.
[00:04:44] Insights on PageExecutive and Career Questions
[00:04:44] Eleonore: So please introduce us to PageExecutive and your current role, Daniel, because maybe my audience still doesn't know what PageExecutiveis and which branch it is within the page group.
[00:04:58] Daniel Knott: Sure. I'm Daniel Knott, born in Duisburg, almost, 42 years old. Father of three very loud and beautiful kids. I'm with PageGroup for almost seven years now. I'm Specialized in the executive search. So page group, exists for more than 40 years now. We have over 9, 000 employees worldwide.
[00:05:19] And, yeah, Germany, as you can imagine, is a very strong and solid market for the executive world, when it comes to jobs and hirings, I'm located in Dusseldorf, which is our headquarter. We have several offices in Germany, like Frankfurt, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Munich, and .
[00:05:37] We are specialized in practice groups. We are working with the research team together.
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[00:07:54] Daniel Knott: What drives me is, connecting with the executive world to talk about career management and also to help to develop careers.
[00:08:04] It's always The connection between the candidates and the clients. So, I think like active listening is a key. Networking is a key. And that a lot of fun to make the difference here. PageExecutive is a growing brand within PageGroup. we have a lot of tools and topics, that we are unique at, and we can really make the difference to really changing lives and changing the companies set up.
[00:08:32] Yeah.
[00:08:32] Eleonore: All right, thank you. That sounds interesting, because, when my students were privileged to visit your office for a fun day, my colleagues within the university said,
[00:08:44] Oh, why couldn't we join? Because we are also nearby. And I said, Well, next time I can let you know. But then others said, Well, we are somewhere far away. So,
[00:08:55] Daniel Knott: Mm hmm.
[00:08:55] Career Management Tips for Graduates
[00:08:55] Eleonore: This episode really is also an opportunity for my colleagues to share with their students because they have also bachelor and master's students, for industrial and occupational psychology. So it's replicating and this way we are scaling.
[00:09:11] All right. So, Most graduates are not yet the typical target group for headhunters like you, obviously, I know that, but you have also been a hiring manager at Ikea, so the Swedish group for interior design, and you have also recruited in that role fresh bachelor and master graduates.
[00:09:30] So what are Right. Insightful questions you wish they would have asked or they would have dared to ask when you were saying like, okay, do you have any questions what are the most insightful questions they should ask?
[00:09:45] Daniel Knott: We have crisis management since 2020. So it's also a lot of things on the plate for companies, right?
[00:09:53] So I would really recommend to ask questions, how do you feel now? What happened since then? will be future like? So that's more like good way into the job interview. And then obviously it's more than a job. If you really start your career, believe in your gut feeling.
[00:10:11] You can do some research on the internet and to see what is their employer branding strategy, like what are the values? But what really matters is like, how is your culture? So that's the question that I would really recommend. What is your management style? What is the difference between company A and company B?
[00:10:29] Why do you enjoy working here? What kind of person are you looking for? What are the challenges? What are your expectations? And you will find out, if you the right person or not. And if you get a no in terms of a contract, that's not a problem, then maybe it's just the cultural thing that didn't work out here.
[00:10:49] Ask the questions that you want to be , answered. How do they measure and ensure that the culture is really thriving and, are there maybe employee engagement surveys where you can really work on as a management team.
[00:11:05] Are there career plans, development opportunities? If you were really starting your career, you don't know, am I a manager? Am I an individual contributor? Is it more of the topic and project based things that I'm good at or trying out, or am I a strong leader?
[00:11:21] I don't know. If I really start my career and I've never had the chance to lead a team, you can't answer the question.
[00:11:29] Ask the question managers were in that role for several years. And they are probably also not able to answer that question because it's quite complex. I would also ask, what's the average age within the company?
[00:11:44] Because we are always talking about the war of talents and especially the situation in Germany is that like the baby boomers are going to retire quite soon. So what happens then? So how do you make sure that new joiners are integrated and can really develop something not only their career, but also to get that knowledge, which is leaving quite soon.
[00:12:10] That tells you also something about the, culture and the structure of the company, how is the staff attrition rate. So is there a lot of people moving and why are they moving? So hopefully if you're in a job interview, it will be the hire manager and someone from the HR department and they need to know this numbers.
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How open the recruiters are, is telling
[00:14:43] Eleonore: And also a good thing is that, if they are open to say that is the turnover rate, that's the attrition rate,
[00:14:50] and they're also open to share why they're leaving, sometimes it's also a great opportunity in the sense of they have learned enough here to be also valuable in other companies, which is again, at the end of the day, good for the company itself. that you are applying at the moment. So maybe this is something like within the supply chain, it's a great stepping point.
[00:15:14] Daniel, to build on your answers, which were all quite insightful for someone who is. Dr. Eleonore Soei Winkels, Podbean, ActiveCampaign, Descript, Squadcast, TypeForm, Women who maybe want to become moms. Do you think that they should also ask other questions or should they just pretend that they will never become pregnant?
[00:15:47] Because it's not allowed in Germany anyway to ask that question. So they could lie if they were asked, but maybe it's the other way around. You should be open about that and ask. So what is your take on that and what questions do you think they should ask?
[00:16:04] Diversity, Inclusion, and Work-Life Balance
[00:16:04] Daniel Knott: Yeah, that's a very nice and very complex topic. And, as a father of three kids, I totally feel, how stressful it can be also depending on like the company's, values or structure. But I would really ask, how many female leaders do you have in the company?
[00:16:22] Is there a kind of flexibility in terms of meeting structure, career plans and so on? To really find out, do they have a success story here? Diversity and inclusion is one of the most fascinating topics. As a father of three kids, I know that you're very efficient and you are hardworking as a female employee.
[00:16:44] They probably need two men doing the job. Which is also fact. What I would recommend here is, ask the question, if they haven't mentioned the topic diversity and inclusion, is there any success stories? Because at the end of the day, what matters is, is it real? Can you prove it? Or is it just like something that everybody does and we also need to do it? Sometimes in Germany, you have the union and you have the HR department and you have like several managers and you want a standard. Um, sometimes it's much better. And I don't know if that's even an English word to have a cafeteria principle: to really ask the employees, so what do you need?
[00:17:27] Is it money? Is it a space? Is it like just a laptop or like a table that you can adjust? Is it to bring your dog to the office? Can we support you in terms of daycare, childcare, or even elderly care? It's also something that matters. I must say all employees in the average age of like 40 are handling a lot.
[00:17:52] So you have the family, you have the career, and then some other networks, that you need to interact and you have to handle, like School and daycare management. And then probably your parents also need support, which is something new, right?
[00:18:07] So what can you offer here and is there any help, once it's needed? I believe a cafeteria model would be quite useful and managers can really make an impact and really make good decisions here, right?
[00:18:22] Eleonore: Absolutely. And you've been saying so many gems here because you said family first, but also you mentioned right away from the bat that you have three kids. And I know also from our fun day that you were mentioning that you pick up also your kids from school, et cetera. So you're someone who really is. putting a lot of effort into family life and that's why also we vibe so well, because we share the same values.
[00:18:50] So that is something that was really striking from minute one when I met you. So was there an epiphany moment when did you discover that you should be? The male ally that you are today, what is your motivation? Because that is really unique.
[00:19:10] Daniel Knott: It's nice that you say that, but for me it's like a natural thing. That what was always there. In my youth, I also played inline hockey in the first league and nationals, and we always had a mixed team because it was like football or like a very trendy sport to really have a game, you had to have a mixed team. So we had a female goalkeeper, my defense mate was female.
[00:19:37] And we won, so German Championships and so on. So it's normal for me. It's skills, mindset, are you interesting and let's have a good time together. That makes really an impact. And also equal participation is a topic that is really important for me because there's so many challenges in life, no matter like from what kind of background you are, we have also new opportunities.
[00:20:08] So we have a lot of refugees right now. So the word is going crazy. Do we help them or do we build a wall? I would say, build longer tables and make sure that you integrate people because there's so much more in it and to really develop as a society.
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[00:22:07] Daniel Knott's Personal Journey and Insights
[00:22:07] Daniel Knott: You also asked was there a special moment in life?
[00:22:10] I can answer that with a yes. My wife, we came together, when we made our A levels. Oh, I'm getting old. So it was 2003 and, Johanna, that's my wife got a place at the London School of Economics. And I was very happy for her, but then as a young couple, it meant, okay, we have a long distance relationship.
[00:22:31] We have that long distance relationship for almost eight years. I traveled to London quite often. I was able to be in this student community to meet people from all over the world. And these are our friends now. So after 20 years, I have that international network, no matter of religion, male, female, gay, straight, whatever. It doesn't matter. What I'm saying is I'm super, thankful to had these moments in my life to really meet interesting people from different backgrounds, societies, and so on. And that's also something that I would recommend to my kids and to all young starters , go out there.
[00:23:13] Believe in you and be independent, and try something out. Go in foreign countries, learn the languages, start working there, and you will come back with so much more energy and power and you have a different mindset then. So that was also, to answer the questions like I would say.
[00:23:31] It's a general or natural thing for me, but then in 2003, that was probably also mind and game changing.
[00:23:38] And when I, did my Ikea program, it was like, I was studying and working at the same time for three years. I also learned a lot about Germany. The IKEA concept, our program works with you, um, that you are located in three different areas all over Germany.
[00:23:57] So I start in Berlin. Great time. Then I went to Regensburg totally different in the south of Germany, very small, lot of beer and so on. At the end I was located in Oldenburg, like in the very north of Germany. When I finished, so it was my first manage management function.
[00:24:16] I moved to Munich and that was the moment when also my wife came back from London and we started our family business in 2010. So I have an idea of like, how is Germany, the North and the South and the West and the East are very, very different cultural wise and so on. So I learned a lot here. And that's also something That helps me a lot in the business context. So I have clients from all over the world. So Europe is pretty small for someone from China or from San Francisco, right? To get them an idea of like, how is Europe and the north of Germany is different to the south of Germany because we don't have that centralized system like France or England where everything is in London or Paris. So it's like very different. It's a different market with different industries.
[00:25:07] Eleonore: Absolutely. The better you know the local market of the companies that you are looking for staffing, recruiting, the better you will be able to cater the company's needs, but also to cater The applicant's needs, right?
[00:25:21] So essentially it's expectation management, right? So
[00:25:24] if someone is coming from abroad to work for a German company, it might be different in Berlin versus Oldenburg, for example.
[00:25:33] Some cities are more open for gay people and some are not, and if you know that right away, then you can choose. And it's a realistic expectation.
[00:27:09] Eleonore: Okay, so that is already great for my own students.
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[00:27:13] Career Management Tips for Students and Professionals
[00:27:13] Eleonore: And now the meat of our discussion will be about career management tips. You already mentioned some, but is there anything that you want to mention for bachelor and master students?
[00:27:22] Daniel Knott: Ask questions that you really want to know. And that's an individual thing, to really find out. What does the job like, what does the company like, and what is the job that I'm looking for as a student.
[00:27:33] Degrees are really important, but at some points in your early career. It's a matter of fact that you need to work hard, right? To really prove no matter of bachelor or master or PhD degree to show that you can really adapt and to show your knowledge within the job and company, right?
[00:27:54] What I would ask here is also most of the managers, do they have a master degree or do they have a bachelor degree?
[00:28:01] At some point, the work experience matters. Like in a board, they have like different degrees, different background, and then you work and act as a team and make a company successful because you have a diverse team, right?
[00:28:14] Would also recommend to see there's different kinds of master and bachelor degrees, right? We still have very , conservative industries. Let's call it that way, like in the engineering , in the automotive , industry and so on.
[00:28:28] Do you come from a very well known university, or is it from a fh or is it from something different? So you have a break within your career planning because you have a certain degree and I'm hoping that that will open career perspectives for young talents.
[00:28:45] Eleonore: Okay.
Middle Management Career Advic
[00:28:46] Eleonore: We can now move on to the middle management leaders, because some of my master's students, they are actually not just master's students right away from the bachelor, but actually they have been working in responsible jobs already.
[00:28:59] Some of them are already leaders, but they or The company feel that they needs a master's so that they can continue on their career path to become more senior also. So are there any tips that you want to share for middle management leaders? Because that is in the vicinity of the FidAR of women, we were talking about.
[00:29:17] Daniel Knott: First of all, it's very interesting thing to have someone who's already in the management position or is like developing in this position and is also like studying at the same time. So what you could totally see here as a manager who's like the hiring manager in a job interview, or as a headhunter is that this person is probably hardworking.
[00:29:42] I don't know what, what drives you. Yeah. Is the degree for your ego? Do you do it for yourself or is it just to tick the box for your career plan? That's something, that you need to answer yourself, right? What I could see as a hiring manager, or a head hunter, is that this person's pretty resilient probably. And that's a key value for companies to hire someone, with his attitude and mindset in young life, if that makes sense.
[00:30:09] you Already have the opportunity to do the master at the same time and the company is sponsoring the master degree, then it's probably a good employer because they want to develop the company's future with you, as a company that can attract young talents. To study and work at the same time, you have limited money and limited time. How do you manage? It shows that the company understood many things to find young talents to also have them in the company for several years.
[00:30:42] When they sponsor it, that helps a lot to make the difference in a yeah, challenging market, right?
[00:30:47] Eleonore: Absolutely. My students are really determined to make a difference because they want to change their own professional avenues within their companies. So most of them are actually sponsored by the company. So the company.
[00:31:02] thinks that they are high caliber talent that deserves and that they have to also support, otherwise they'll be going away to another company. So they better nurture them.
[00:31:15] And these are also the students that challenge me the most. Because they really don't have time a lot
[00:31:22] on that plate, and they have many issues and many work obstacles. So when they come to my lectures, and they're not attending every lecture, but when they're coming, they're really focused, ask me a lot of questions that challenged me.
[00:31:36] And at the end of the day, they still have to deliver just because they were not able to visit every lecture, they
[00:31:42] are still managing to take the exams and to write the thesis and everything.
[00:31:47] They are usually the ones that are already clear in their vision of life.
[00:31:50] Senior Management Career Strategies
[00:31:50] Eleonore: And maybe this is the leeway to senior management leaders and your career management tips for them, I think when you have a clear vision of your life, then you know that there are some things that you don't wanna negotiate anymore.
[00:32:06] So are there any career management tips for senior management leaders? Because these are actually your target groups, right? So you're working with seniors.
[00:32:15] Daniel Knott: The career is not from nine to five, it's before and after, right? So there's so much more to handle. You have your daily business, but it's, the extra mile that you have to go, right?
[00:32:27] Also in our business relations. We are talking after or before work and before family or between. That's the interesting stuff that also need to be shared with young talents and with tough leaders that life is more than a job.
[00:32:42] Several aspects influence your life and your career. And, all together, it makes a difference, right?
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[00:34:29] Navigating Toxic Work Environment
[00:34:29] Daniel Knott: And what I also would recommend, senior leaders, to make a move if the manager is, to say clearly an asshole, and it doesn't matter if it's like male or female, also met both sides in my career, really good, and really bad male and female leaders.
[00:34:45] If It's like more like a treadmill, you can tick many boxes and you have your degree, all the KPIs are fine, you've done a fantastic job, but there's something, that pulls you back and says, well, you need this and that until we offer you the next step.
00:35:01] Daniel Knott: And then the hiring manager is leaving and you're standing there and have to explain to the new manager, what kind of things you've done very good. so, you're losing time. That's what I'm trying to say. At some point you need to ask yourself, that the whole surrounding as a package is that nice or not? And if it's not nice, just quit.
[00:35:26] Daniel Knott: Connect with headhunters. They can also speed up your career and your career management.
[00:35:33] Transitioning Careers: A Personal Journey
[00:35:33] Daniel Knott: When I started thinking about Leaving Ikea and find something, that I would like to do. There were many questions that I asked myself and, my wife challenged me and now I'm a headhunter for almost seven years and I can do what I want.
[00:35:50] I can develop what I want and I'm meeting interesting people every day that inspire me and can hopefully inspire those people. And really help with the career management because there's still under the surface, I would say 90%, um, I'm not good in statistics, , that's like more your profession.
[00:36:11] I would say 90 percent on our market are not working together with a search agency or , with a headhunter to really activate your career plan.
[00:36:23] Daniel Knott: And to apply for jobs, to write a CV, to also synchronize your LinkedIn profile or Xing profile, At the same time, there is a lot of effort and headhunter can really give you the helping hand.
[00:36:37] To give an overview because you're always in this little corner and micro perspective and you are handling your career by yourself, maybe you have a good friend or a manager that helps you.
[00:36:48] Daniel Knott: But at some point, you have to come out there and to connect .
[00:36:53] Networking is something that I highly recommend, to ask questions, to find a way, how people manage their careers.
[00:37:01] And then you find out, okay, cool. That's how you do it. Right. And , it's a complex thing. I have friends that you probably also talk to, who also inspired me. But the careers that I'm handling are that way. Right. So it's, interesting stuff and also like quitting jobs and moving to a different company to learn about new companies and values and so on.
[00:37:25] That's super important. Yeah.
[00:37:27] Daniel Knott: But also quite challenging for new talents. That's, a challenge for some companies that they say, well, we invested a lot of money here for this young talent. We paid for the university degree or even for the headhunter fee and so on.
[00:37:43] And they're leaving after one year. So that's a new challenge. Is it the companies, failing here or is it the , employee who is Not resilient, that's something that you need to find out.
[00:37:54] Strategic Career Planning and Exploring The Hidden Job Market
[00:37:54] Daniel Knott: So I would always recommend to be in your position for at least three years. When it comes to the top management, we're talking about strategy. Do you do a strategy in one year? Probably not. Do you park your strategy in crisis management? Big, big yes. But at the end of the day, you are talking about, shifting an organization, and transformation and organization is something that you don't do because it's so complex within one year.
[00:38:26] So I would also recommend to reflect, and to share, what have I done? What were my success factors? Can I tick that boxes? Okay. Let's make the next step. Can I do it here or do I need to find out if there's other great companies out there.
[00:38:42] Daniel Knott: And that's also something you work with a headhunter. We have so many hidden champions, so many great companies, and I'm doing industry and technology, there's companies you've never heard about. To connect those people, a senior management, top talent, very well educated, the right mindset, and you have the company, that offers us looking for someone, with exactly these things and to bring those people together.
[00:39:08] That's what drives me on. Yeah.
[00:39:10] Let's hold that thought for a quick appreciation of your business.
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[00:40:28] Insights for HR and Talent Management
[00:40:28] Eleonore: Listening to you, Julius and also Katharina, who organized the fun day for my students and me. Really is, serving so many as we say in Germany, that I can use in my lectures.
[00:40:40] So this is again another Episode that I will make my students listen to because it really underlines what I'm saying in the sense of the business life cycle is maybe a year and to understand what's really working, the name of the game in the company, the company culture, and how it deals with setbacks, how it deals with budget changes, a change in the pipeline or whatever. You will only learn that when you have enough data and that can be more than one year, even two or three years.
[00:41:16] So by not being promoted within a year, you should not say, okay, I'll just leave and go. But instead you should ask yourself, and this is also what you do to ask yourself, what did I do Well, what did I do not do well and how can I improve what I'm doing?
[00:41:34] So I remember when you said that you actually have a list of all your successful placements. That's head hunters do. And then you always say that what made you successful in this placement? And you said within those, how many successful placements you have? It's, 80, 80 right now.
[00:41:55] Eleonore: 80. So for all of these 80, There's not a single pattern that you said that is really saying this is the one the secret ingredient But it's the whole thing that you see this holistic view on does this candidate really fit to the company culture? Yes, or no, and there's so many things whatever the diversity criteria are, the age,
[00:42:18] the gender, the background, the nationality, the location of the company, the role, the industry and whatever.
[00:42:26] So all of these things you have to attend to and that is nothing that you can have a final verdict on after a year.
[00:42:33] So that really underlines invest more than two or three years.
[00:42:38] But then again, for, especially for Bachelor and Master's students, please choose wisely, which company?
[00:42:46] Daniel Knott: exactly. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's more than a job. And yeah, if you're not happy, you are not successful.
[00:42:52] And also like if you grow up, it's hard to know what you would like to do and so on. You always need a mentor.
[00:43:00] You need someone who's inspiring you, who's offering his or her hand to help you with a career. But as you said, if it's not the right setup, the right company. You won't be successful in a long way.
[00:43:14] And if you were in a management position and you don't believe in the values or the Companies Decision and you have a responsible for a team
[00:43:25] and you don't agree, or it's a toxic surrounding and, you don't believe in the company anymore, make a move.
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[00:44:34] Eleonore: Absolutely. And that also dovetails nicely with what we were just talking about in the what are questions that my graduates should ask and the more open they are about their own values that repels or attract hiring manager to hire you. And if it's not meant to be, then it's better if it's not just probation time, and then you find out it's not working out.
[00:44:59] So it really goes hand in hand. And it really is beneficial for both sides to be
[00:45:05] open and to be authentic, and not to play someone who you're not going to be able to obtain anyway.
[00:45:12] Okay.
[00:45:13] Balancing Career and Family
[00:45:13] Eleonore: At the fun day, I was so impressed as you were talking about your own career path and that you openly shared that as a father of three, that you don't want to spend all too much of your workday in meetings and you rather spend direct time with your clients with the companies and to understand the candidates needs etc so that you can be the matchmaker between the companies and the candidates so what are your own career aspirations within page executives, would that change when your kids are older and need you less
[00:45:51] Daniel Knott: That's a good question. So right now I'm, an individual contributor, as we say. So I'm just responsible for my own business. And that's what I really, really like. And that's, because as you said, we have three kids. My wife is also working. I can focus during the day, on all job related topics.
[00:46:11] And I have not so many meetings and I don't need to develop young talent. So I have more like a mentor function now. So if we have new colleagues, then I'm also there to help. That's also something which is natural for me. But I'm quite happy that I'm not in a management function now.
[00:46:29] Can I manage a team? For sure. But the living situation is different now. So before we had kids, I was leading a team. When our second child was born, I was still managing, a team of plus 120 employees at ikea. Working Monday till Sunday and retail is really hard business.
[00:46:52] And that's what I also, what I learned. I'm very thankful, for almost 11 years at Ikea as a manager. But right now I'm quite happy to make an impact as an individual contributor, to have all flexibility that I need.
[00:47:05] And I'm quite successful here, because we do have our career plans, within page group, of course. So we have half and full year appraisals with our managers and hR department. And that's something that I'm really looking forward because we develop so fast, we have a fast growing organization because the demand is out there.
[00:47:26] That I'm pretty sure that there will be another function in the near future, within page executive and that's something that we developed together, my boss, HR and myself. And, I will push the button if I'm unhappy to say, well, let's talk.
[00:47:42] It's not something I'm waiting for until we have that day of career planning. That's something you have to interact all the time with your manager and that there is no problem you talk about when it comes to career planning.
[00:47:57] Eleonore: That is so beautiful that you are having these opportunities within PageExecutive to switch from a leadership management role to a more expert role. And I'm also talking about this to my students who will eventually land a role in HR. Most
[00:48:14] of them want to.
[00:48:16] And I'm saying that you should also establish this leadership versus expert tracks that are both financially attractive,
[00:48:24] but are also depending on the personal capabilities. Not all of the employees want to lead. Not all of them should lead. Not all of them are the born experts. But if you have both inherent in your capabilities, then switching between both tracks would allow for family times in the sense of what you were just sharing, you were in a greedy job before you had kids and building your family made you realize that you want to spend more time with your family so you are switching to a role where you're just responsible for your own business. And I think that is also great for people young now to understand that if they are building their capabilities to be attractive on the job market, that they should also understand when is my time to sort of like park and understand that I can still have an impact with these kinds of capabilities if I know what I can offer. And then I can also ask for that.
[00:49:32] Another gem that you just dropped was that you would push the button not when it's too late, but for you, the career management discussions are ongoing already from day one. Careers do not happen, it's not something that I passively benefit from, but instead, I need to work out my own opportunities.
[00:49:55] And that is to say I want that. Why am I the best person for that? And then to be patient, if it's not happening right away, that's fine. But after three years and you see that you are capable of doing that, you can then switch. And that again dovetails to that should be the employer, ideally where you want to spend more than three years, because that could be the time when you fall pregnant or you become a father. And then you have already built that trust that they will give you this opportunity because they already know this will be an investment where you can find and build new experiences that will help you in the future function at PageExecutive, for example.
[00:50:40] Daniel Knott: Ja.
[00:52:15] Eleonore: So you were also talking that you are working with other executive headhunters and you also see the market.
[00:52:23] Future Career Trends and Industry Insights
[00:52:23] Eleonore: You said that you are a specialist for the technology sector, but obviously my students aren't always interested, unfortunately, in the technology. Industry. Are there any other industries in the future of work that you see thriving so that these are also huge career opportunities outside of tech?
[00:52:45] Daniel Knott: Yeah, you're pretty independent when it comes to functions. Especially in the hr. So you can be, I dunno, A-C-H-R-O or a head of , HR in the tech industry, in the automotive industry, in the fashion industry at some point it doesn't matter. And that's what really changed, now, the market is rare, there's not many talents there in. The skills based hiring is super important. That's something that we also recommend to our clients. If you always hire someone from the same background that you're on the safe side, but you would probably not develop, some companies don't like surprises.
[00:53:24] I like surprises and that's what I go for. If we take a look at HR functions, finance functions, some engineering functions, these are executive searches, so if you have studied economics, you won't become a lawyer, for example.
[00:53:41] If we take a look at industries, we have a very well developing industry in the tech business. Also in the B2B context, In the engineering world, we also have a lot of trends and digitalization transformation.
[00:53:59] Daniel Knott: So these are all also topics that I'm responsible for and I'm interested into to really Find the right talents for companies if they want to change. And you need someone, in the function of project process and change managers. It's all about people related.
[00:54:18] All right. So these are also some interesting trends. In Germany, automotive is still a very important industry which struggles right now, is it like electromobility or is it diesel motor, or is it , the Asian market much quicker than us? It's very unstable and there's still this post Corona wave. And in terms of suppliers who are not building cars, they're not car manufacturers, but there's so much more involved. So that's something that will develop and, come back for sure. And also all service related industries. It can be in banking or insurance.
[00:54:53] Also those business models will be more digital, will transform and security: a really, really big topic and that can be in any industries. So everything goes into the cloud. Everything is digital now. How do we make sure that it's secure? So these are probably the market trends that I can share.
[00:55:19] We make sure as page group, page executive that we make an impact because we have specialized teams, headhunters and the executive team, and our research team is also specialized in the same like functions and industries. We like can already help if the demand is there and not to start a search in like three weeks time, if that makes sense, yeah, it's like active networking.
[00:55:44] Eleonore: I'm really happy about the insights that you shared about digitalization, and it happens to all of the industries and
[00:55:51] all the functions, and to have at least some affinity to understand and to be able to speak with the people who are developing, who are the architects within the operations, within the system, or within the company, that really is important.
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Working As A Headhunter - Key Traits for Successful Headhunters
[00:56:50] Eleonore: So we had the second fun day when you were also talking about the work as a headhunter, and we do have actually two episodes with two real headhunters from Page Executive.
One is Dr. Sonja Uhland, and other one is with Beth Horsley, and they already answered a lot of questions. from the perspective of an applicant.
[00:57:13] Eleonore: But now I want to ask you, if you would hire a new headhunter, what is the number one success factor that you are looking for to have that person in your team?
[00:57:24] Daniel Knott: Yeah, I would say, personality. Do we share the same values? Because you represent the company. I could do the job for several other companies, but I'm happy with the company pageGroup because I believe in the values and I really appreciate that I have so great colleagues and a fantastic female leader.
[00:57:46] That's something that I would to take a look at. How's the mindset in terms of diversity, inclusion, equal participation. Do we have a track record here? Is that something that is important for the person? Because for us, it's super important.
[00:58:02] And that's something that we sell to our clients. Not because it's a trend. But because it's like what we believe in, what we do, and which is important. I would say if it comes to attitudes Or how does someone act in several situation, you need a really high frustration level, if you're a headhunter, because, in this book, you mentioned there's like 80 placements that I've done in the past seven years, meeting nearly 2000 contacts. It can be clients, candidates per year. Now you can ask, is it a bad conversion? I would say no, it's not because it's a very abstract business.
[00:58:45] My passion is to meet people, to really listen, find out what is the next wish in their career, in their life, and to really match it with client and candidate to bring them together. Right. What I would ask the applicant is , are you up for that?
[00:59:04] Are you happy with it or does it feel like work? Because if it feels like work, then you're probably not the right person for that job. I think internal motivation is super important, and you need to be resilient because it can be also very frustrating.
[00:59:21] So you have, oneFantasticCandidate in your final job project. It's just like the signature under the contract. And then he says, well, or she says, well, I don't do it. And that's a long journey. We're talking about two to three months until we are there, to have a contract between candidate and client. So that can be very frustrating. Loyalty is super important for me and to have a close relationship. If something is wrong, just tell me before and not when we are almost there.
[00:59:53] So that's also something that I want to find out if this person we are probably hiring had the same experience. Have you learned about that or not? So in Germany we say you need to be a Stehaufmännchen. You can't translate that. I really love that word because that's what you need to be in the job as a headhunter.
[01:00:11] Have also a sportive mindset, if that makes sense. Thanks. So, I really like targets, goals, job is done, everybody's happy, next. And you can multiply it. Your network is really growing, and, when it comes to the executive search, it's all clients, right?
[01:00:31] Every client can be a candidate. Once it is the buying center and the hiring manager, and it can also be the person, if you have a, CloseRelationship, that can be your future candidate.
[01:00:43] That's also something that I would like to find out, because it's super abstract, does the person, we try to hire, have that in mind and does he or she understand the complexity of the job as a headhunter, because it's different if you're selling products, you can say, well, that's the benefit, it's the price, it's the availability, I don't know. We're market leader, early adapter, whatever, but we're talking about people, right? And they have their own will, and at a certain career level, it's not the money that drives the candidates, they're looking for the right organization for the job, to make decisions, to make an impact, to share the knowledge. And because we are talking in the executive search, I'm only placing male and female top leaders. They want to make an impact and they want to really enable their managers to make the next step.
[01:01:40] Eleonore: And that really is a perfect bow for all my audiences because I also have PhD and postdoc scientists who want to leap into business and maybe they're not yet the leaders that you are talking about, but if they're good in their job, they will advance and become the ones that want to make an impact, et cetera.
[01:01:59] All you said was so great that I haven't touched on networking as such. And I feel that I should invite you again for another episode. And just to give you a heads up, for example, we are actually meeting in September again for
[01:02:15] Daniel Knott: Yes, we do.
[01:02:15] Eleonore: then the second time. And Daniel will be talking about creating your own brand.
[01:02:21] And I will be also talking about how to become attractive for a podcast to use podcast guesting , to be a guest in a podcast for your own personal branding. And I think that it will dovetail nicely hand in hand. So I'll be looking forward to meet you again, Daniel, and also to share our mission helping young and old talents who are underprivileged, underrepresented, and also underserved to be sitting at a longer, bigger table, because we need
[01:02:55] all of them.
[01:02:55] Daniel Knott: And naturally, women and people from diverse backgrounds tend to have more interesting stories and that need to be shared. Everybody knows, the German, male, doing the degree in banking, and he's doing banking for 20 years, and he's happy in retiring.
[01:03:12] That's not interesting. I know people with this kind of career, but the difference is really, People from diverse backgrounds and minorities to be empowered. Also like looking forward to the 14th of September in Essen to share nice stories, insights, and connect people that they are able to manage their careers.
[01:03:35] And I'm so happy and thankful that you invited me for this great podcast here. I think we can develop something great here. Yeah.
[01:03:43] Eleonore: Absolutely. Thank you, Daniel. It really has been a pleasure. And I'm really also looking forward to further collaborations for another fun day for my students next year, or maybe this year, even in November or so. I think that fathers like you should be shared and celebrated more openly.
Thank you for listening!
Do you want a transcript of our episode? And our episode sponsors answers to all six bold questions so that you can choose to apply. Do you want to nominate your potential employer of choice so that we can ask them our bold questions? For all of that, click on our links in our show notes and on our website, www.postdoctransformation.com. Remember to check your readiness to leap out of science and to enroll in our free email course Career Transition Made Simple. Thanks for your attention. I'm Prof. Dr. Eleonore Soei Winkels, the host of your seasonal Postdoc Transformation Show.
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Leveraging Podcasting for Internal Communication
Eleonore:
Hey, you're still here and you are a future HR or talent management leader. Well, I want to talk to you about a powerful tool that can transform the way organizations communicate internally. How about creating a podcast like this one in today's fast paced business world? Effective communication is the cornerstone of success, so how can you engage your employees, convey your company's culture and share knowledge in a dynamic, authentic, and accessible way?
Well, to me, the answer lies in podcasting, obviously. So picture this, a podcast tailor made for your organization, where you and your real employees and leaders share and updates in a conversational, engaging format. It's like having your own radio show, but with a corporate twist, absolutely branded.
Now, why should you consider this as a future HR and talent management professional? Well, podcasts are accessible, so your employees can tune in during their daily commute while multitasking off screen or walking, and it's flexible and it can be easily repurposed in different formats and languages.You know what I'm talking about, right?
So, it actually humanizes your organization and podcasts allow you to bring a company's culture to life. You can interview leaders, team members, and highlight what makes your workplace unique and connect with those team members who are far away or on parental leave when they are most receptive for your internal communication.
And in the era of AI generated communications, a podcast with your business leaders in real life is a real human way to reach your employees. You can inform your people every day, everywhere, on demand, and not just during the typical onboarding and promotion seasons.
Lastly, it's a platform for continuous learning, whether it's training materials, leadership insights, or industry trends. Podcasts keep your team informed and inspired. So as you prepare to step into the world of HR, talent management and leadership, consider the impact you can make by introducing a corporate podcast.
It's a game changer for internal communications and aligns perfectly with a modern work environment. So, are you ready to inform with a human touch create a podcast with me. I'm Eleonore Soei-Winkels, the host of the PostdocTransformation Show. Do you need inspiration? Well, you can get a list of free 30 sample episode titles to be customized for your company.
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